If The Internet Went Down


Rowland
 

The following video about the internet going completely down is a bit of a reach but still food for thought.



Thanks,

Rowland


Robin WA7CPA
 

This is why we need GO Boxes with radios. Not a reach. It is imaginable. We already lived without Internet, those of us old enough to remember.


Paul Butzi (W7PFB)
 

While it’s certainly worth considering what impact loss of connectivity would have… the internet is not a monolithic entity that is either all working properly or all not working at all. 

So much of what is in that video is, in fact, pretty much wrong.  I made it nearly 3 minutes into the video before the wrongness made me stop it before the pain behind my eyes made me scream out loud.

I suppose I should have set my expectations lower given that the other videos Facebook thought might interest me were on what really happens in the Bermuda Triangle, what exactly is an orgasm, another Bermuda Triangle video, and the “wealthy elite that own the entire world”.

Every time someone looks at facebook, they subtract from the sum of human knowledge.

Which is about what 
-p W7PFB
73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!

On Feb 21, 2022, at 4:25 PM, Rowland <rowland.brasch@...> wrote:

The following video about the internet going completely down is a bit of a reach but still food for thought.



Thanks,

Rowland



Lou Giliberto (KD7HCW)
 

Anyone who has Wave as their broadband provider gets a simulation of this on a regular basis, lol.

To be blunt, we'd be kind of screwed. it would be like the Bell going down back in the 80s. So much commerce communications relies on the internet that it would be a significant crisis, IMO.

However, thanks to DARPA who designed it (contrary to Al Gore's claim) once the infrastructure is fixed, the network is quickly repairable. This was originally designed for milcoms so repairability is part of the design. Routes, etc, can autoconfigure after a few well placed kicks.


73,
Lou




Sent from ProtonMail mobile



-------- Original Message --------
On Feb 21, 2022, 4:25 PM, Rowland < rowland.brasch@...> wrote:

The following video about the internet going completely down is a bit of a reach but still food for thought.



Thanks,

Rowland


Lou Giliberto (KD7HCW)
 

The part that made my brain hurt the most was in minute two the thought of Google "waiting for their backup servers to kick in".  Yeah, that's not how this works. It's not a power outage with "backup generators".

"What exactly is an orgasm" - I got that recommend, too.  Probably because we're radio nerds, lol.  

I also got "Where did all the bodies on the Titanic disappear."  

Really?  Everyone knows they were beamed up on alien craft and taken to the Orion system as part of the food supply for the inhabitants of GammaQuadraPhlegal Prime.  I once heard a conspiracy theory that they were chewed on by sealife and eventually decomposed in the saltwater.  You'd have to be a real fool to believe that tin foil hat explanation.

Kidding aside, like you (Paul) said, it is def good to contemplate what would happen if the internet crashed in the sense that it was unavailable to large portions of the population.  It would lead to a crisis for sure.

73,
-Lou

Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

------- Original Message -------
On Monday, February 21st, 2022 at 5:07 PM, Paul Butzi (W7PFB) via groups.io <w7pfb@...> wrote:
While it’s certainly worth considering what impact loss of connectivity would have… the internet is not a monolithic entity that is either all working properly or all not working at all.

So much of what is in that video is, in fact, pretty much wrong. I made it nearly 3 minutes into the video before the wrongness made me stop it before the pain behind my eyes made me scream out loud.

I suppose I should have set my expectations lower given that the other videos Facebook thought might interest me were on what really happens in the Bermuda Triangle, what exactly is an orgasm, another Bermuda Triangle video, and the “wealthy elite that own the entire world”.

Every time someone looks at facebook, they subtract from the sum of human knowledge.

Which is about what
-p W7PFB
73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!

On Feb 21, 2022, at 4:25 PM, Rowland <rowland.brasch@...> wrote:

The following video about the internet going completely down is a bit of a reach but still food for thought.



Thanks,

Rowland




Bruce Gary
 

True, the internet is not monolithic.  But it depends on electricity, and the grid has plenty of “single points of failure”

 

Case in point, my internet comes through the cable, which requires a cable modem, which requires power.  If the power goes down, I don’t have internet (*).  So it goes.

 

(*) actually, I usually do because I plugged the cable modem and my wifi-router into a UPS, so I have – estimated – 20 hours or so of wireless internet access *IF* the power outage isn’t so widespread that the cable signal-distribution is interrupted….

 

Anyway, longwinded way of saying, if it needs electricity to move the bits, the electricity itself is a high up in the stack of vulnerabilities too.

 

Bruce / K7BGG

 

From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io <snovarc@snovarc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul Butzi (W7PFB) via groups.io
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 5:08 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SnoVARC] If The Internet Went Down

 

While it’s certainly worth considering what impact loss of connectivity would have… the internet is not a monolithic entity that is either all working properly or all not working at all. 

 

So much of what is in that video is, in fact, pretty much wrong.  I made it nearly 3 minutes into the video before the wrongness made me stop it before the pain behind my eyes made me scream out loud.

 

I suppose I should have set my expectations lower given that the other videos Facebook thought might interest me were on what really happens in the Bermuda Triangle, what exactly is an orgasm, another Bermuda Triangle video, and the “wealthy elite that own the entire world”.

 

Every time someone looks at facebook, they subtract from the sum of human knowledge.

 

Which is about what 

-p W7PFB
73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!



On Feb 21, 2022, at 4:25 PM, Rowland <rowland.brasch@...> wrote:

 

The following video about the internet going completely down is a bit of a reach but still food for thought.

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

Rowland

 

 


Jason Frazier
 

Lurker here, someone remind me to pay my dues.

I don't use Facebook so have to tag along with just the comments here.  Let's run with the robust principles for a moment; they are part of the TCP specification after all.  Say, many routes are broken but others are working.  You've got some amount of congested connectivity going.  I fear that with lack of prioritization, and many connected companies claiming they are valuable public services (we don't need to look far back to know how muddy "essentialness" can get), that what little connectivity is there will be saturated by cascading failures and desperate refreshing of stalled browsers from:
  • people trying to live stream their panic, or video call loved ones, or even just send whatever megapixels they have on hand
  • people and businesses trying to push their files into the cloud for backup
  • those same people trying to retrieve their cloud files for local safe keeping
  • social media stepping up the videos and ads on their "news service" to inform, intertain, ingratiate themselves with as many people as possible
  • businesses rushing transaction/communiques to reduce their exposure or protect their assets and people
  • and I haven't even touched on bad actors or those looking to not miss out on a good crisis.
These congestion scenarios can easily saturate a limping system.  I sure hope the providers have a way to tamp down on superfluous traffic, and for the good of everyone that social media is prepared to constrain itself to plaintext delivery (or better yet suggest a terrestrial broadcast media to lighten the load).  I don't think that will happen.  Not many people are prepared to seek or use low-content content, and be patient in doing so.

When I need to use a slow and flaky connection in one region, I use mosh (SSH over UDP) for a text terminal to Linux or WSL in another region, and there I use snownews and Elinks in the terminal to check RSS feeds.  It works, ad- and video-free, with some painful keyboard jockeying and the occasional uncooperative link, but at least I can get the content even when my session is dying every 45 to 90 seconds or so.  If the time comes to pass traffic under duress, perhaps I can be useful, whether running as a ham radio operator or not.

73 de Jason W7DM



From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io <snovarc@snovarc.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Gary <tech@...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2022 1:40 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io <snovarc@snovarc.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SnoVARC] If The Internet Went Down
 

True, the internet is not monolithic.  But it depends on electricity, and the grid has plenty of “single points of failure”

 

Case in point, my internet comes through the cable, which requires a cable modem, which requires power.  If the power goes down, I don’t have internet (*).  So it goes.

 

(*) actually, I usually do because I plugged the cable modem and my wifi-router into a UPS, so I have – estimated – 20 hours or so of wireless internet access *IF* the power outage isn’t so widespread that the cable signal-distribution is interrupted….

 

Anyway, longwinded way of saying, if it needs electricity to move the bits, the electricity itself is a high up in the stack of vulnerabilities too.

 

Bruce / K7BGG

 

From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io <snovarc@snovarc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul Butzi (W7PFB) via groups.io
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 5:08 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SnoVARC] If The Internet Went Down

 

While it’s certainly worth considering what impact loss of connectivity would have… the internet is not a monolithic entity that is either all working properly or all not working at all. 

 

So much of what is in that video is, in fact, pretty much wrong.  I made it nearly 3 minutes into the video before the wrongness made me stop it before the pain behind my eyes made me scream out loud.

 

I suppose I should have set my expectations lower given that the other videos Facebook thought might interest me were on what really happens in the Bermuda Triangle, what exactly is an orgasm, another Bermuda Triangle video, and the “wealthy elite that own the entire world”.

 

Every time someone looks at facebook, they subtract from the sum of human knowledge.

 

Which is about what 

-p W7PFB
73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!



On Feb 21, 2022, at 4:25 PM, Rowland <rowland.brasch@...> wrote:

 

The following video about the internet going completely down is a bit of a reach but still food for thought.

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

Rowland

 

 


Robin WA7CPA
 

Jason,
Nice to hear from you. Consider yourself reminded, lol.
73,
Robin, WA7CPA

On Tue, Feb 22, 2022 at 2:30 PM Jason Frazier <frazierjason@...> wrote:
Lurker here, someone remind me to pay my dues.

I don't use Facebook so have to tag along with just the comments here.  Let's run with the robust principles for a moment; they are part of the TCP specification after all.  Say, many routes are broken but others are working.  You've got some amount of congested connectivity going.  I fear that with lack of prioritization, and many connected companies claiming they are valuable public services (we don't need to look far back to know how muddy "essentialness" can get), that what little connectivity is there will be saturated by cascading failures and desperate refreshing of stalled browsers from:
  • people trying to live stream their panic, or video call loved ones, or even just send whatever megapixels they have on hand
  • people and businesses trying to push their files into the cloud for backup
  • those same people trying to retrieve their cloud files for local safe keeping
  • social media stepping up the videos and ads on their "news service" to inform, intertain, ingratiate themselves with as many people as possible
  • businesses rushing transaction/communiques to reduce their exposure or protect their assets and people
  • and I haven't even touched on bad actors or those looking to not miss out on a good crisis.
These congestion scenarios can easily saturate a limping system.  I sure hope the providers have a way to tamp down on superfluous traffic, and for the good of everyone that social media is prepared to constrain itself to plaintext delivery (or better yet suggest a terrestrial broadcast media to lighten the load).  I don't think that will happen.  Not many people are prepared to seek or use low-content content, and be patient in doing so.

When I need to use a slow and flaky connection in one region, I use mosh (SSH over UDP) for a text terminal to Linux or WSL in another region, and there I use snownews and Elinks in the terminal to check RSS feeds.  It works, ad- and video-free, with some painful keyboard jockeying and the occasional uncooperative link, but at least I can get the content even when my session is dying every 45 to 90 seconds or so.  If the time comes to pass traffic under duress, perhaps I can be useful, whether running as a ham radio operator or not.

73 de Jason W7DM



From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io <snovarc@snovarc.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Gary <tech@...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2022 1:40 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io <snovarc@snovarc.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SnoVARC] If The Internet Went Down
 

True, the internet is not monolithic.  But it depends on electricity, and the grid has plenty of “single points of failure”

 

Case in point, my internet comes through the cable, which requires a cable modem, which requires power.  If the power goes down, I don’t have internet (*).  So it goes.

 

(*) actually, I usually do because I plugged the cable modem and my wifi-router into a UPS, so I have – estimated – 20 hours or so of wireless internet access *IF* the power outage isn’t so widespread that the cable signal-distribution is interrupted….

 

Anyway, longwinded way of saying, if it needs electricity to move the bits, the electricity itself is a high up in the stack of vulnerabilities too.

 

Bruce / K7BGG

 

From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io <snovarc@snovarc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul Butzi (W7PFB) via groups.io
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 5:08 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SnoVARC] If The Internet Went Down

 

While it’s certainly worth considering what impact loss of connectivity would have… the internet is not a monolithic entity that is either all working properly or all not working at all. 

 

So much of what is in that video is, in fact, pretty much wrong.  I made it nearly 3 minutes into the video before the wrongness made me stop it before the pain behind my eyes made me scream out loud.

 

I suppose I should have set my expectations lower given that the other videos Facebook thought might interest me were on what really happens in the Bermuda Triangle, what exactly is an orgasm, another Bermuda Triangle video, and the “wealthy elite that own the entire world”.

 

Every time someone looks at facebook, they subtract from the sum of human knowledge.

 

Which is about what 

-p W7PFB
73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!



On Feb 21, 2022, at 4:25 PM, Rowland <rowland.brasch@...> wrote:

 

The following video about the internet going completely down is a bit of a reach but still food for thought.

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

Rowland

 

 


Lou Giliberto (KD7HCW)
 

Those are all good and interesting points.

Honestly, besides the fact I have to work from home because of The Rona, no internet to my house would be little more than an inconvenience.  I still own actual books, etc., and come from the pre-webz era so I can slog through it.

I think the bigger problem is commerce and such routed over the internet.  Gone are the days when a Safeway would buy a leased line from the store to the IT department.  Almost everything runs over the interwebz trusting in either SSL or VPN or both to keep the information confidential.

If Safeway's cash registers can't talk to the servers they need to, how can we buy food?  How can we run a debit card?  Almost makes one want to buy a Burkee water filter and bury gold in the yard.  Almost.

Wall Street, OTOH, has almost all leased / owned lines and in fact uses radio a lot.  That shouldn't surprise anyone, lol.  The thing is, though, most businesses don't do that anymore and rely on the internet the same way everyone would rely on the phone system back in the day.  I think that puts all of us in a bad place. :-(

Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

------- Original Message -------
On Tuesday, February 22nd, 2022 at 2:30 PM, Jason Frazier <frazierjason@...> wrote:
Lurker here, someone remind me to pay my dues.

I don't use Facebook so have to tag along with just the comments here. Let's run with the robust principles for a moment; they are part of the TCP specification after all. Say, many routes are broken but others are working. You've got some amount of congested connectivity going. I fear that with lack of prioritization, and many connected companies claiming they are valuable public services (we don't need to look far back to know how muddy "essentialness" can get), that what little connectivity is there will be saturated by cascading failures and desperate refreshing of stalled browsers from:
  • people trying to live stream their panic, or video call loved ones, or even just send whatever megapixels they have on hand
  • people and businesses trying to push their files into the cloud for backup
  • those same people trying to retrieve their cloud files for local safe keeping
  • social media stepping up the videos and ads on their "news service" to inform, intertain, ingratiate themselves with as many people as possible
  • businesses rushing transaction/communiques to reduce their exposure or protect their assets and people
  • and I haven't even touched on bad actors or those looking to not miss out on a good crisis.
These congestion scenarios can easily saturate a limping system. I sure hope the providers have a way to tamp down on superfluous traffic, and for the good of everyone that social media is prepared to constrain itself to plaintext delivery (or better yet suggest a terrestrial broadcast media to lighten the load). I don't think that will happen. Not many people are prepared to seek or use low-content content, and be patient in doing so.

When I need to use a slow and flaky connection in one region, I use mosh (SSH over UDP) for a text terminal to Linux or WSL in another region, and there I use snownews and Elinks in the terminal to check RSS feeds. It works, ad- and video-free, with some painful keyboard jockeying and the occasional uncooperative link, but at least I can get the content even when my session is dying every 45 to 90 seconds or so. If the time comes to pass traffic under duress, perhaps I can be useful, whether running as a ham radio operator or not.

73 de Jason W7DM



From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io <snovarc@snovarc.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Gary <tech@...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2022 1:40 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io <snovarc@snovarc.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SnoVARC] If The Internet Went Down

True, the internet is not monolithic. But it depends on electricity, and the grid has plenty of “single points of failure”

Case in point, my internet comes through the cable, which requires a cable modem, which requires power. If the power goes down, I don’t have internet (*). So it goes.

(*) actually, I usually do because I plugged the cable modem and my wifi-router into a UPS, so I have – estimated – 20 hours or so of wireless internet access *IF* the power outage isn’t so widespread that the cable signal-distribution is interrupted….

Anyway, longwinded way of saying, if it needs electricity to move the bits, the electricity itself is a high up in the stack of vulnerabilities too.

Bruce / K7BGG

From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io <snovarc@snovarc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul Butzi (W7PFB) via groups.io
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 5:08 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SnoVARC] If The Internet Went Down

While it’s certainly worth considering what impact loss of connectivity would have… the internet is not a monolithic entity that is either all working properly or all not working at all.

So much of what is in that video is, in fact, pretty much wrong. I made it nearly 3 minutes into the video before the wrongness made me stop it before the pain behind my eyes made me scream out loud.

I suppose I should have set my expectations lower given that the other videos Facebook thought might interest me were on what really happens in the Bermuda Triangle, what exactly is an orgasm, another Bermuda Triangle video, and the “wealthy elite that own the entire world”.

Every time someone looks at facebook, they subtract from the sum of human knowledge.

Which is about what

-p W7PFB
73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!



On Feb 21, 2022, at 4:25 PM, Rowland <rowland.brasch@...> wrote:

The following video about the internet going completely down is a bit of a reach but still food for thought.

Thanks,

Rowland



Rowland
 

I know a lot of this info was a stretch at best but at least it got people talking and that was my purpose for posting this. No one rally knows what would happen in a country wide or world wide catastrophic power  failure and I hope we never find out.


Jackson Beard
 

We may find out this week.


On Thu, Feb 24, 2022, 12:45 Rowland <rowland.brasch@...> wrote:
I know a lot of this info was a stretch at best but at least it got people talking and that was my purpose for posting this. No one rally knows what would happen in a country wide or world wide catastrophic power  failure and I hope we never find out.


Lou Giliberto (KD7HCW)
 

Yes, thanks for posting it, Rowland.  Discussion and thinking before something happens is always good!

73
Lou

Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

------- Original Message -------
On Thursday, February 24th, 2022 at 12:45 PM, Rowland <rowland.brasch@...> wrote:
I know a lot of this info was a stretch at best but at least it got people talking and that was my purpose for posting this. No one rally knows what would happen in a country wide or world wide catastrophic power  failure and I hope we never find out.