Topics

Tarheel questions

Paul Butzi (W7PFB)
 

Great meeting last night, I particularly enjoyed the field day plan discussions and the discussion about Tarheel antennas.

But looking at the Tarheel website this morning I am dazzled by the array of choices. And now I have a lot of questions and I’m hoping the Tarheel owners will put me on the straight and narrow path to Tarheel satisfaction.

I see there are some models which differ from other models by offering power handling up to 1.5KW. I have no interest in running more than 100 watts when operating in the field, so I can exclude: Model 40, Model 100, Model 200. (assuming there are no other reasons to pick those over the lower power equivalents).

It appears to me things boil down to two issues: coil length and whip length. It seems to me a longer whip is to be preferred unless you want to operate while moving (I don’t plan that at this time). Longer whip would mean higher radiation resistance so I’m guessing I want the 72” long whip, not the 32 or 36” whip. So that rules out models: Baby, Little, Little II, am I correct?

But wait! The models with the shorter whip cover up thru 54MHz, so they cover up thru 6m. And the models with the longer whip cover up thru 26, 28, 30MHz, so they cover only up thru either 12m or 10m. And I can imagine 10m and 6m being useful. So now the shorter whip lengths suddenly look appealing.

And of course Model 300 and 400 go as low as 1.7/1.6 MHz, so they cover 160m as well. And I currently have no antenna that will cover 160m!

What is a ham to do?

Let’s assume I’m going to follow along behind Robin, and use a big big mag mount on the roof of my car, operating only when stationary. Covering 40m and 20m is essential. Covering 80m would be nice but probably of less value to me, as most of what I see doing is during the times when 80m is not really the best choice. Covering 17m-10m would be handy, and I’m wondering about the 6m option. (on the 6m thing I suspect a good option would be to just put a tuned 1/4 wave vertical on the mount and use the car as a ground plane would work well, so maybe I don’t need the Tarheel to cover 6m?)

A little guidance on this choice would be a big help.


-p W7PFB
73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!

W7ABD
 

A few things to consider...

The size of the tarheel antenna coil depends on where you plan to mount the antenna on your vehicle.  The bigger coils need to mounted to the frame or the lowest part of the body.  The smaller coils need to be mounted on top of the vehicle.

Getting longer whips is not a bad idea, nor is getting the capacitance hat.  As you discovered, it does effect the range of the coverage.  But the whips are easy to change in the field, so that's not a big deal.

If your planning on using a mag mount, you only need the single magnet if you plan on only using it for mobile in place (vehicle stationary).  Get the NMO type mag mount with a NMO to 3/8 x 26 adapter.

You will need a good controller for your antenna.  The basic antenna unit only comes with a rocker switch.  I purchased the Ameritron SDC 102 Controller for my antenna.  Check out the "controllers" tab on the tarheel web page to see what's available.

Pay close attention to the instructions when setting up your controller for the first time.  The smaller coil antennas have lower maximum current cut-off's than the bigger coils.


Jim
W7ABD


On 6/5/20 08:46, Paul Butzi (W7PFB) wrote:
Great meeting last night, I particularly enjoyed the field day plan discussions and the discussion about Tarheel antennas.

But looking at the Tarheel website this morning I am dazzled by the array of choices.  And now I have a lot of questions and I’m hoping the Tarheel owners will put me on the straight and narrow path to Tarheel satisfaction.

I see there are some models which differ from other models by offering power handling up to 1.5KW.  I have no interest in running more than 100 watts when operating in the field, so I can exclude: Model 40, Model 100, Model 200.  (assuming there are no other reasons to pick those over the lower power equivalents).

It appears to me things boil down to two issues: coil length and whip length.  It seems to me a longer whip is to be preferred unless you want to operate while moving (I don’t plan that at this time).  Longer whip would mean higher radiation resistance so I’m guessing I want the 72” long whip, not the 32 or 36” whip.  So that rules out models: Baby, Little, Little II, am I correct?

But wait!  The models with the shorter whip cover up thru 54MHz, so they cover up thru 6m.  And the models with the longer whip cover up thru 26, 28, 30MHz, so they cover only up thru either 12m or 10m.  And I can imagine 10m and 6m being useful.  So now the shorter whip lengths suddenly look appealing.

And of course Model 300 and 400 go as low as 1.7/1.6 MHz, so they cover 160m as well.  And I currently have no antenna that will cover 160m!

What is a ham to do?

Let’s assume I’m going to follow along behind Robin, and use a big big mag mount on the roof of my car, operating only when stationary. Covering 40m and 20m is essential.  Covering 80m would be nice but probably of less value to me, as most of what I see doing is during the times when 80m is not really the best choice.  Covering 17m-10m would be handy, and I’m wondering about the 6m option.  (on the 6m thing I suspect a good option would be to just put a tuned 1/4 wave vertical on the mount and use the car as a ground plane would work well, so maybe I don’t need the Tarheel to cover 6m?)

A little guidance on this choice would be a big help.


-p W7PFB
73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!





Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM
 
Edited

I agree that this is a great conversation.

I was thinking about the Tarheel II but given that this unit needs to be mounted on the body causes a kerfuffle for my aluminum-bodied Jeep. Am I right to think that I would need to go to a trailer-Hitch mount and use one of the larger Tarheel antennas to use with the Jeep?

Also, can these be used "in the field" without the vehicle as a ground plane? What would need to be done to create a decent ground plane, let say in my backyard or up in the hills somewhere?

Thanks - I definitely see my wallet getting thinner as this conversation progresses :-) 

Howard
--
*************************
Howard E. Mahran
WA1HEM
(425) 864 - 5104
*************************

Paul Butzi (W7PFB)
 

Howard, the antenna mounts on a 3/8-24 thread.  So any place on the Jeep where you could mount such a threaded stud, you could mount (and ground) the antenna.  Heck, you could put a stud on a plate held by suction cups and stick the suction cups to the jeep, and then just run a grounding wire to some place on the Jeep frame.  But you probably wouldn’t want the Jeep in motion with such a setup.

CB antennas commonly mount on 3/8-24 studs, so any CB antenna mount would seem to be a solution.  Looking on Amazon I see a variety of mounts for Jeeps - some that go under the spare tire mount, some seem to attach to things which I guess Jeeps have and about which I know nothing.

Out of curiosity, how do you mount the VHF/UHF antenna on the Jeep currently?  You could always pop the VHF/UHF antenna off that NMO mount and screw an NMO to 3/8 adapter, and away you go.

-p W7PFB
73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!

On Jun 5, 2020, at 12:43 PM, Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM <wa1hem@...> wrote:

I agree that this is a great conversation.

I was thinking about the Tarheel II but given that this unit needs to be mounted on the body causes an kerfuffle for my aluminum-bodied Jeep. Am I right to think that I would need to go to a trailer-Hitch mount and use one of the larger Tarheel antennas to use with the Jeep?

Also, can these be used "in the field" without the vehicle as a ground plane? What would need to be done to create a decent ground plane, let say in my backyard or up in the hills somewhere?

Thanks - I definitely see my wallet getting thinner as this conversation progresses :-) 

Howard
--
*************************
Howard E. Mahran
WA1HEM
(425) 864 - 5104
*************************

Paul Zoba
 

“ some seem to attach to things which I guess Jeeps have and about which I know nothing.”

Loved that, lol!

On Jun 5, 2020, at 4:42 PM, Paul Butzi (W7PFB) <w7pfb@...> wrote:

some seem to attach to things which I guess Jeeps have and about which I know nothing.

Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM
 

So I’ve narrowed the choice to the 300a or the 400a. Can’t decide which one. Also, I'll use a hitch mount but need to find some type of extension to get around the spare tire. Someone please talk me out of this🥴
--
*************************
Howard E. Mahran
WA1HEM
(425) 864 - 5104
*************************

Robin Amundson
 

Howard,
Ham friends are for talking you into stuff, not out of stuff.

73,
Robin, WA7CPA

On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 12:16 PM Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM <wa1hem@...> wrote:
So I’ve narrowed the choice to the 300a or the 400a. Can’t decide which one. Also, I'll use a hitch mount but need to find some type of extension to get around the spare tire. Someone please talk me out of this🥴
--
*************************
Howard E. Mahran
WA1HEM
(425) 864 - 5104
*************************

Paul Butzi (W7PFB)
 

Uh, no.  Not going to try to talk you out of something to do with your Jeep.  As I pointed out before, there are lots of parts of Jeeps I don’t know anything about.  Ask me about a Land Rover and I might have an answer.  

(the answer is that the side hinged rear door on a Land Rover Disco is a PIA because it leaves you with nothing to put up and stand under when it’s raining and you’re trying to get your camera and tripod all ready before you step out into the rain to make the exposure).

I think I have decided on a Little Tarheel II and one of those triple mag mounts like Robin has.  Basically just duplicating Robin’s setup, which impressed the bejeebees out of me when she showed me how it worked.  So simple to set up.  So fast and simple in operation.  Darn good performance.  Fits in a small enough space that I don’t resent it when lugging it out to the car or back to the shack.


-p W7PFB
73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!

On Jun 6, 2020, at 12:16 PM, Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM <wa1hem@...> wrote:

So I’ve narrowed the choice to the 300a or the 400a. Can’t decide which one. Also, I'll use a hitch mount but need to find some type of extension to get around the spare tire. Someone please talk me out of this🥴
--
*************************
Howard E. Mahran
WA1HEM
(425) 864 - 5104
*************************

Paul Zoba
 

I believe this to be a Tarheel 2 mounted...




On Jun 6, 2020, at 12:25 PM, Paul Butzi (W7PFB) <w7pfb@...> wrote:

Uh, no.  Not going to try to talk you out of something to do with your Jeep.  As I pointed out before, there are lots of parts of Jeeps I don’t know anything about.  Ask me about a Land Rover and I might have an answer.  

(the answer is that the side hinged rear door on a Land Rover Disco is a PIA because it leaves you with nothing to put up and stand under when it’s raining and you’re trying to get your camera and tripod all ready before you step out into the rain to make the exposure).

I think I have decided on a Little Tarheel II and one of those triple mag mounts like Robin has.  Basically just duplicating Robin’s setup, which impressed the bejeebees out of me when she showed me how it worked.  So simple to set up.  So fast and simple in operation.  Darn good performance.  Fits in a small enough space that I don’t resent it when lugging it out to the car or back to the shack.


-p W7PFB
73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!

On Jun 6, 2020, at 12:16 PM, Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM <wa1hem@...> wrote:

So I’ve narrowed the choice to the 300a or the 400a. Can’t decide which one. Also, I'll use a hitch mount but need to find some type of extension to get around the spare tire. Someone please talk me out of this🥴
--
*************************
Howard E. Mahran
WA1HEM
(425) 864 - 5104
*************************

Kirt White / K7KDW
 

I'm too often the voice of reason around my house so I'm all tapped out. I was only able to talk myself out of one for the time being because I have a couple of expensive projects I haven't completed. 

I'll be looking forward to seeing you and Paul's Tarheels in action when we can do some get togethers. 

Kirt 


From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io <snovarc@snovarc.groups.io> on behalf of Paul Butzi (W7PFB) <w7pfb@...>
Sent: Saturday, June 6, 2020 12:25 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io <snovarc@snovarc.groups.io>; Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM <wa1hem@...>
Subject: Re: [SnoVARC] Tarheel questions
 
Uh, no.  Not going to try to talk you out of something to do with your Jeep.  As I pointed out before, there are lots of parts of Jeeps I don’t know anything about.  Ask me about a Land Rover and I might have an answer.  

(the answer is that the side hinged rear door on a Land Rover Disco is a PIA because it leaves you with nothing to put up and stand under when it’s raining and you’re trying to get your camera and tripod all ready before you step out into the rain to make the exposure).

I think I have decided on a Little Tarheel II and one of those triple mag mounts like Robin has.  Basically just duplicating Robin’s setup, which impressed the bejeebees out of me when she showed me how it worked.  So simple to set up.  So fast and simple in operation.  Darn good performance.  Fits in a small enough space that I don’t resent it when lugging it out to the car or back to the shack.


-p W7PFB
73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!

On Jun 6, 2020, at 12:16 PM, Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM <wa1hem@...> wrote:

So I’ve narrowed the choice to the 300a or the 400a. Can’t decide which one. Also, I'll use a hitch mount but need to find some type of extension to get around the spare tire. Someone please talk me out of this🥴
--
*************************
Howard E. Mahran
WA1HEM
(425) 864 - 5104
*************************

Rowland
 

Howard.....STOP IT!......there I feel better now


Thanks,

Rowland



On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 12:16 PM Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM <wa1hem@...> wrote:
So I’ve narrowed the choice to the 300a or the 400a. Can’t decide which one. Also, I'll use a hitch mount but need to find some type of extension to get around the spare tire. Someone please talk me out of this🥴
--
*************************
Howard E. Mahran
WA1HEM
(425) 864 - 5104
*************************

Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM
 

Ok so if you all won't talk me out of it, then talk into the right one.  I'm now thinking I can use my CB antenna mount to attach a Tarheel II. Yes? Also, Paul, can you help me with your decision to forgo 160M? I'm assuming it is all about the size.  Below is my CB mount (with a quick release that I would remove). Ideas? 


--
*************************
Howard E. Mahran
WA1HEM
(425) 864 - 5104
*************************

Paul Butzi (W7PFB)
 

Yeah, that looks as if it would do fine.

I’d like to have 160M, sure.  Right now I’ve got no antenna that will do 160M.

My observation is that on HF, I’ve got perhaps a hundred QSOs on 80m, hundreds of PSK QSOs on 40m.  Thousands on 20m.  Many hundreds on 17m, 15m.  Dozens on 12m and 10m.  Zero on 160M, which I admit is partly to do with lack of antenna that would tune so I can transmit.  But I have listened and let my station run listening to 160M for PSK signals, and it has never seen one.  Not one.  So my interest in 160m is pretty much theoretical.

The whip for the Little TH II is 32” long.  The base is 16” long.  I can fit a 48” unit into my car *side to side* without breaking it down.  If I want better performance I can get the 56” whip, but I suspect I could also use a telescoping whip like I have for the Buddipole just as easily.

The base for the 300 and 400 is minimum 36” long and the whip is 72” long.  The combined length is 10’.  Sitting in the parking lot for a park in Granite Falls, running PSK on a laptop, with an antenna that’s 4 feet long is one thing.  Doing it with an antenna that is 10’ long is another thing.  Again I can use a telescoping 72” whip, but I can’t make that 48” long base of the 400 any shorter.

Mostly it’s the size of the thing for me.  I know everyone will tell you that size doesn’t matter and it’s all about how you use it.  But when you’re trying to fit all the gear into the back of the car, size matters quite a bit.

-p W7PFB
73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!

On Jun 6, 2020, at 2:22 PM, Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM <wa1hem@...> wrote:

Ok so if you all won't talk me out of it, then talk into the right one.  I'm now thinking I can use my CB antenna mount to attach a Tarheel II. Yes? Also, Paul, can you help me with your decision to forgo 160M? I'm assuming it is all about the size.  Below is my CB mount (with a quick release that I would remove). Ideas? 

<IMG_4110.png>
--
*************************
Howard E. Mahran
WA1HEM
(425) 864 - 5104
*************************

Robin Amundson
 

Howard,
The antenna mount is very important. I suggest you call Tarheel for their recommendation. I got what they recommended. Also, consider power in vs power out on the 160. Ask Tarheel about that too. Probably not a great ratio, and there aren't that many 160 ops. Are you going to spend the night in your car on 160?

73,
Robin, WA7CPA

On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 2:24 PM Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM <wa1hem@...> wrote:
Ok so if you all won't talk me out of it, then talk into the right one.  I'm now thinking I can use my CB antenna mount to attach a Tarheel II. Yes? Also, Paul, can you help me with your decision to forgo 160M? I'm assuming it is all about the size.  Below is my CB mount (with a quick release that I would remove). Ideas? 


--
*************************
Howard E. Mahran
WA1HEM
(425) 864 - 5104
*************************

Robin Amundson
 

Howard,
I didn't see the picture. It rendered slowly. Did you look at the mounting example photos on the Tarheel  website?

On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 2:24 PM Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM <wa1hem@...> wrote:
Ok so if you all won't talk me out of it, then talk into the right one.  I'm now thinking I can use my CB antenna mount to attach a Tarheel II. Yes? Also, Paul, can you help me with your decision to forgo 160M? I'm assuming it is all about the size.  Below is my CB mount (with a quick release that I would remove). Ideas? 


--
*************************
Howard E. Mahran
WA1HEM
(425) 864 - 5104
*************************

Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM
 

I'm curious what folk are running as their HF mobile rig with their mobile Tarheels. 
--
*************************
Howard E. Mahran
WA1HEM
(425) 864 - 5104
*************************

Rowland
 

Was using Icom 7000

On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 10:41 PM Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM <wa1hem@...> wrote:
I'm curious what folk are running as their HF mobile rig with their mobile Tarheels. 
--
*************************
Howard E. Mahran
WA1HEM
(425) 864 - 5104
*************************

--
Thanks,
Rowland

Robin Amundson
 

KX3 with Tarheel.

Robin, WA7CPA 

On Sat, Jun 6, 2020, 10:41 PM Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM <wa1hem@...> wrote:
I'm curious what folk are running as their HF mobile rig with their mobile Tarheels. 
--
*************************
Howard E. Mahran
WA1HEM
(425) 864 - 5104
*************************

Tom WA7TBP
 

In my Ford Excursion I use the Icom !C 706 Mark 2 G. In my RV's, I use the Icom IC 7100,

Tom

In a message dated 6/6/2020 22:41:52 Pacific Standard Time, wa1hem@... writes:

I'm curious what folk are running as their HF mobile rig with their mobile Tarheels. 
--
*************************
Howard E. Mahran
WA1HEM
(425) 864 - 5104
*************************

Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM
 
Edited

FYI- I am going to be calling the Tarheel folk tomorrow to see if they would be willing to provide Snovarc a quantity discount. Currently, Paul (W7PFB) and I are going to place an order. Anyone else interested? Obviously, the more units we purchase the better chance of a discount. Let me know - you can privately email me here -> " wa1hem at mahran dot com"
 
--
*************************
Howard E. Mahran
WA1HEM
(425) 864 - 5104
*************************