Topics

Tolt Dam False Alarm

Rowland
 

As some of you may know the Tolt Dam alarm went off this morning letting people know the dam had failed and to evacuate immediately. Luckily it was a false alarm but there was a lot of confusion of local Carnation residents on what was the alarm about and what were they suppose to do,  Hopefully the city of Carnation will arrange for some more info to be publish to the locals and this is also a golden opportunity for SnoVARC to talk about what our reaction should be to something like this.

This morning Paul, Shawn and myself were on the radio during this episode. We discussed it and I let them know it was a false alarm once I heard it from Kathy and SPU.

Hopefully this will turn into a great learning process for all concerned.


Thanks,

Rowland

Rick Burns
 

Boy…we sure know. Just a few comments on my experience. Traffic was bad in our quiet sleepy town. First thought was to grab my radio equipment but actually forgot to grab cell phone (lesson #1.5 learned). Headed out the door…wife said in 6 minutes. Went north but turned toward Carnation Farm, I didn’t want to be stuck in the lineup to get passed the slide area near Stillwater Store. At that point a very fast trip toward the farm then I pulled into the elevated spot by the truck scale. Seemed to have bad reception and transmission in that spot. Heard some activity about the incident from a 2m repeater on Cougar Mtn. By now many more cars pull in behind us. I heard the following information, it was a false alarm and there was no police presence in town. But I did see King Cty heading down Hwy 203 from the north so I think they were getting into place. This might be a lesson learned for King Cty to take action immediately to head to the main intersection when it happens again which we hope is never. Like a fire drill it was good practice as we now know what to expect…God forbid the real one hits. Lastly I was giving some status to people up on the rise…”it was a false alarm per ham radio operators out there”. I don’t think they were taking my information seriously because they all seemed to be more engaged sharing, back and forth, information they were getting from their smart phones. I guess that’s okay this time but they’ll be shocked then next time when their phone service is completely down.

 

Rick

Kb7cin

From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io [mailto:snovarc@snovarc.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rowland
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 1:01 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io
Subject: [SnoVARC] Tolt Dam False Alarm

 

As some of you may know the Tolt Dam alarm went off this morning letting people know the dam had failed and to evacuate immediately. Luckily it was a false alarm but there was a lot of confusion of local Carnation residents on what was the alarm about and what were they suppose to do,  Hopefully the city of Carnation will arrange for some more info to be publish to the locals and this is also a golden opportunity for SnoVARC to talk about what our reaction should be to something like this.

 

This morning Paul, Shawn and myself were on the radio during this episode. We discussed it and I let them know it was a false alarm once I heard it from Kathy and SPU.

 

Hopefully this will turn into a great learning process for all concerned.

 

 

Thanks,

 

Rowland

 

Paul Zoba
 

Man, sorry you had to go through that! That must have been scary!

I understand the dam is about 16 miles from Carnation. Has anyone ever guessed how long the water would take to get there? I suppose it depends on how big of a failure.

Best,

Paul, W7PEZ


On Jul 29, 2020, at 2:08 PM, Rick Burns <kb7cin@...> wrote:



Boy…we sure know. Just a few comments on my experience. Traffic was bad in our quiet sleepy town. First thought was to grab my radio equipment but actually forgot to grab cell phone (lesson #1.5 learned). Headed out the door…wife said in 6 minutes. Went north but turned toward Carnation Farm, I didn’t want to be stuck in the lineup to get passed the slide area near Stillwater Store. At that point a very fast trip toward the farm then I pulled into the elevated spot by the truck scale. Seemed to have bad reception and transmission in that spot. Heard some activity about the incident from a 2m repeater on Cougar Mtn. By now many more cars pull in behind us. I heard the following information, it was a false alarm and there was no police presence in town. But I did see King Cty heading down Hwy 203 from the north so I think they were getting into place. This might be a lesson learned for King Cty to take action immediately to head to the main intersection when it happens again which we hope is never. Like a fire drill it was good practice as we now know what to expect…God forbid the real one hits. Lastly I was giving some status to people up on the rise…”it was a false alarm per ham radio operators out there”. I don’t think they were taking my information seriously because they all seemed to be more engaged sharing, back and forth, information they were getting from their smart phones. I guess that’s okay this time but they’ll be shocked then next time when their phone service is completely down.

 

Rick

Kb7cin

From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io [mailto:snovarc@snovarc.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rowland
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 1:01 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io
Subject: [SnoVARC] Tolt Dam False Alarm

 

As some of you may know the Tolt Dam alarm went off this morning letting people know the dam had failed and to evacuate immediately. Luckily it was a false alarm but there was a lot of confusion of local Carnation residents on what was the alarm about and what were they suppose to do,  Hopefully the city of Carnation will arrange for some more info to be publish to the locals and this is also a golden opportunity for SnoVARC to talk about what our reaction should be to something like this.

 

This morning Paul, Shawn and myself were on the radio during this episode. We discussed it and I let them know it was a false alarm once I heard it from Kathy and SPU.

 

Hopefully this will turn into a great learning process for all concerned.

 

 

Thanks,

 

Rowland

 

Jackson Beard
 

We dont need to guess. There's a comprehensive study in the possession of seattle water, and both fire districts. 


On Wed, Jul 29, 2020, 14:22 Paul Zoba <pezoba@...> wrote:
Man, sorry you had to go through that! That must have been scary!

I understand the dam is about 16 miles from Carnation. Has anyone ever guessed how long the water would take to get there? I suppose it depends on how big of a failure.

Best,

Paul, W7PEZ


On Jul 29, 2020, at 2:08 PM, Rick Burns <kb7cin@...> wrote:



Boy…we sure know. Just a few comments on my experience. Traffic was bad in our quiet sleepy town. First thought was to grab my radio equipment but actually forgot to grab cell phone (lesson #1.5 learned). Headed out the door…wife said in 6 minutes. Went north but turned toward Carnation Farm, I didn’t want to be stuck in the lineup to get passed the slide area near Stillwater Store. At that point a very fast trip toward the farm then I pulled into the elevated spot by the truck scale. Seemed to have bad reception and transmission in that spot. Heard some activity about the incident from a 2m repeater on Cougar Mtn. By now many more cars pull in behind us. I heard the following information, it was a false alarm and there was no police presence in town. But I did see King Cty heading down Hwy 203 from the north so I think they were getting into place. This might be a lesson learned for King Cty to take action immediately to head to the main intersection when it happens again which we hope is never. Like a fire drill it was good practice as we now know what to expect…God forbid the real one hits. Lastly I was giving some status to people up on the rise…”it was a false alarm per ham radio operators out there”. I don’t think they were taking my information seriously because they all seemed to be more engaged sharing, back and forth, information they were getting from their smart phones. I guess that’s okay this time but they’ll be shocked then next time when their phone service is completely down.

 

Rick

Kb7cin

From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io [mailto:snovarc@snovarc.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rowland
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 1:01 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io
Subject: [SnoVARC] Tolt Dam False Alarm

 

As some of you may know the Tolt Dam alarm went off this morning letting people know the dam had failed and to evacuate immediately. Luckily it was a false alarm but there was a lot of confusion of local Carnation residents on what was the alarm about and what were they suppose to do,  Hopefully the city of Carnation will arrange for some more info to be publish to the locals and this is also a golden opportunity for SnoVARC to talk about what our reaction should be to something like this.

 

This morning Paul, Shawn and myself were on the radio during this episode. We discussed it and I let them know it was a false alarm once I heard it from Kathy and SPU.

 

Hopefully this will turn into a great learning process for all concerned.

 

 

Thanks,

 

Rowland

 

rn.noodle@...
 

If I recall correctly, it’s a little over an 1 hr (according to SPU).

 

Rob Noonan

KJ7GIG

 

 

 

From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io <snovarc@snovarc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jackson Beard
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 2:27 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SnoVARC] Tolt Dam False Alarm

 

We dont need to guess. There's a comprehensive study in the possession of seattle water, and both fire districts. 

 

On Wed, Jul 29, 2020, 14:22 Paul Zoba <pezoba@...> wrote:

Man, sorry you had to go through that! That must have been scary!

 

I understand the dam is about 16 miles from Carnation. Has anyone ever guessed how long the water would take to get there? I suppose it depends on how big of a failure.

 

Best,

 

Paul, W7PEZ

 


On Jul 29, 2020, at 2:08 PM, Rick Burns <kb7cin@...> wrote:



Boy…we sure know. Just a few comments on my experience. Traffic was bad in our quiet sleepy town. First thought was to grab my radio equipment but actually forgot to grab cell phone (lesson #1.5 learned). Headed out the door…wife said in 6 minutes. Went north but turned toward Carnation Farm, I didn’t want to be stuck in the lineup to get passed the slide area near Stillwater Store. At that point a very fast trip toward the farm then I pulled into the elevated spot by the truck scale. Seemed to have bad reception and transmission in that spot. Heard some activity about the incident from a 2m repeater on Cougar Mtn. By now many more cars pull in behind us. I heard the following information, it was a false alarm and there was no police presence in town. But I did see King Cty heading down Hwy 203 from the north so I think they were getting into place. This might be a lesson learned for King Cty to take action immediately to head to the main intersection when it happens again which we hope is never. Like a fire drill it was good practice as we now know what to expect…God forbid the real one hits. Lastly I was giving some status to people up on the rise…”it was a false alarm per ham radio operators out there”. I don’t think they were taking my information seriously because they all seemed to be more engaged sharing, back and forth, information they were getting from their smart phones. I guess that’s okay this time but they’ll be shocked then next time when their phone service is completely down.

 

Rick

Kb7cin

From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io [mailto:snovarc@snovarc.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rowland
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 1:01 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io
Subject: [SnoVARC] Tolt Dam False Alarm

 

As some of you may know the Tolt Dam alarm went off this morning letting people know the dam had failed and to evacuate immediately. Luckily it was a false alarm but there was a lot of confusion of local Carnation residents on what was the alarm about and what were they suppose to do,  Hopefully the city of Carnation will arrange for some more info to be publish to the locals and this is also a golden opportunity for SnoVARC to talk about what our reaction should be to something like this.

 

This morning Paul, Shawn and myself were on the radio during this episode. We discussed it and I let them know it was a false alarm once I heard it from Kathy and SPU.

 

Hopefully this will turn into a great learning process for all concerned.

 

 

Thanks,

 

Rowland

 

Kathy K7KJB
 

The Carnation-Duvall Citizen Corps recommends to people to take 10 minutes to get what they need and get out of their house. Use the next 50 minutes to get off the valley floor, whether that’s by walking up Evacuation Hill (no cars will be allowed) or drive out of town.  If yesterday was any indicator of traffic, it will be bad.  SPU says you have 1.4 hours, but that is until water is at peak depths.  You want to be out before that or you may not be getting out.

Kathy, K7KJB

 

From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io <snovarc@snovarc.groups.io> On Behalf Of rn.noodle@...
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 2:44 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SnoVARC] Tolt Dam False Alarm

 

If I recall correctly, it’s a little over an 1 hr (according to SPU).

 

Rob Noonan

KJ7GIG

 

 

 

From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io <snovarc@snovarc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jackson Beard
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 2:27 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SnoVARC] Tolt Dam False Alarm

 

We dont need to guess. There's a comprehensive study in the possession of seattle water, and both fire districts. 

 

On Wed, Jul 29, 2020, 14:22 Paul Zoba <pezoba@...> wrote:

Man, sorry you had to go through that! That must have been scary!

 

I understand the dam is about 16 miles from Carnation. Has anyone ever guessed how long the water would take to get there? I suppose it depends on how big of a failure.

 

Best,

 

Paul, W7PEZ

 


On Jul 29, 2020, at 2:08 PM, Rick Burns <kb7cin@...> wrote:



Boy…we sure know. Just a few comments on my experience. Traffic was bad in our quiet sleepy town. First thought was to grab my radio equipment but actually forgot to grab cell phone (lesson #1.5 learned). Headed out the door…wife said in 6 minutes. Went north but turned toward Carnation Farm, I didn’t want to be stuck in the lineup to get passed the slide area near Stillwater Store. At that point a very fast trip toward the farm then I pulled into the elevated spot by the truck scale. Seemed to have bad reception and transmission in that spot. Heard some activity about the incident from a 2m repeater on Cougar Mtn. By now many more cars pull in behind us. I heard the following information, it was a false alarm and there was no police presence in town. But I did see King Cty heading down Hwy 203 from the north so I think they were getting into place. This might be a lesson learned for King Cty to take action immediately to head to the main intersection when it happens again which we hope is never. Like a fire drill it was good practice as we now know what to expect…God forbid the real one hits. Lastly I was giving some status to people up on the rise…”it was a false alarm per ham radio operators out there”. I don’t think they were taking my information seriously because they all seemed to be more engaged sharing, back and forth, information they were getting from their smart phones. I guess that’s okay this time but they’ll be shocked then next time when their phone service is completely down.

 

Rick

Kb7cin

From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io [mailto:snovarc@snovarc.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rowland
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 1:01 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io
Subject: [SnoVARC] Tolt Dam False Alarm

 

As some of you may know the Tolt Dam alarm went off this morning letting people know the dam had failed and to evacuate immediately. Luckily it was a false alarm but there was a lot of confusion of local Carnation residents on what was the alarm about and what were they suppose to do,  Hopefully the city of Carnation will arrange for some more info to be publish to the locals and this is also a golden opportunity for SnoVARC to talk about what our reaction should be to something like this.

 

This morning Paul, Shawn and myself were on the radio during this episode. We discussed it and I let them know it was a false alarm once I heard it from Kathy and SPU.

 

Hopefully this will turn into a great learning process for all concerned.

 

 

Thanks,

 

Rowland

 

Ken Kosters
 

Are these water levels based on current river gauge readings for USGS?

Ken

On Jul 29, 2020, at 3:21 PM, Kathy K7KJB <kb1@...> wrote:

The Carnation-Duvall Citizen Corps recommends to people to take 10 minutes to get what they need and get out of their house. Use the next 50 minutes to get off the valley floor, whether that’s by walking up Evacuation Hill (no cars will be allowed) or drive out of town.  If yesterday was any indicator of traffic, it will be bad.  SPU says you have 1.4 hours, but that is until water is at peak depths.  You want to be out before that or you may not be getting out.

<image001.jpg>

Kathy, K7KJB

 

From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io <snovarc@snovarc.groups.io> On Behalf Of rn.noodle@...
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 2:44 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SnoVARC] Tolt Dam False Alarm

 

If I recall correctly, it’s a little over an 1 hr (according to SPU).

 

Rob Noonan

KJ7GIG

 

 

 

From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io <snovarc@snovarc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jackson Beard
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 2:27 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SnoVARC] Tolt Dam False Alarm

 

We dont need to guess. There's a comprehensive study in the possession of seattle water, and both fire districts. 

 

On Wed, Jul 29, 2020, 14:22 Paul Zoba <pezoba@...> wrote:

Man, sorry you had to go through that! That must have been scary!

 

I understand the dam is about 16 miles from Carnation. Has anyone ever guessed how long the water would take to get there? I suppose it depends on how big of a failure.

 

Best,

 

Paul, W7PEZ

 


On Jul 29, 2020, at 2:08 PM, Rick Burns <kb7cin@...> wrote:



Boy…we sure know. Just a few comments on my experience. Traffic was bad in our quiet sleepy town. First thought was to grab my radio equipment but actually forgot to grab cell phone (lesson #1.5 learned). Headed out the door…wife said in 6 minutes. Went north but turned toward Carnation Farm, I didn’t want to be stuck in the lineup to get passed the slide area near Stillwater Store. At that point a very fast trip toward the farm then I pulled into the elevated spot by the truck scale. Seemed to have bad reception and transmission in that spot. Heard some activity about the incident from a 2m repeater on Cougar Mtn. By now many more cars pull in behind us. I heard the following information, it was a false alarm and there was no police presence in town. But I did see King Cty heading down Hwy 203 from the north so I think they were getting into place. This might be a lesson learned for King Cty to take action immediately to head to the main intersection when it happens again which we hope is never. Like a fire drill it was good practice as we now know what to expect…God forbid the real one hits. Lastly I was giving some status to people up on the rise…”it was a false alarm per ham radio operators out there”. I don’t think they were taking my information seriously because they all seemed to be more engaged sharing, back and forth, information they were getting from their smart phones. I guess that’s okay this time but they’ll be shocked then next time when their phone service is completely down.

 

Rick

Kb7cin

From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io [mailto:snovarc@snovarc.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rowland
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 1:01 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io
Subject: [SnoVARC] Tolt Dam False Alarm

 

As some of you may know the Tolt Dam alarm went off this morning letting people know the dam had failed and to evacuate immediately. Luckily it was a false alarm but there was a lot of confusion of local Carnation residents on what was the alarm about and what were they suppose to do,  Hopefully the city of Carnation will arrange for some more info to be publish to the locals and this is also a golden opportunity for SnoVARC to talk about what our reaction should be to something like this.

 

This morning Paul, Shawn and myself were on the radio during this episode. We discussed it and I let them know it was a false alarm once I heard it from Kathy and SPU.

 

Hopefully this will turn into a great learning process for all concerned.

 

 

Thanks,

 

Rowland

 

Rick Burns
 

Years ago I was hearing it’d take like 40 minutes to get into Carnation but then yesterday I heard 18 minutes from a couple of people out and about. Would be good if we get one or the other confirmed. Then in response to Kathy’s mention of Evacuation Hill and no cars will be allowed up there…apparently there was a lot of traffic going up there so I would think work needs to be done on that part of the plan. And yes to all it was rather scary and got the adrenaline pumping. Reminds me the other time it went off unplanned, maybe in the range of 25-30 years ago. They just finished the upgrade to the system and it went off in middle of the night. Taking some risk I assumed the most likely reason, just a mistake and rolled over back to sleep.

 

From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io [mailto:snovarc@snovarc.groups.io] On Behalf Of Paul Zoba
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 2:23 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SnoVARC] Tolt Dam False Alarm

 

Man, sorry you had to go through that! That must have been scary!

 

I understand the dam is about 16 miles from Carnation. Has anyone ever guessed how long the water would take to get there? I suppose it depends on how big of a failure.

 

Best,

 

Paul, W7PEZ

 


On Jul 29, 2020, at 2:08 PM, Rick Burns <kb7cin@...> wrote:



Boy…we sure know. Just a few comments on my experience. Traffic was bad in our quiet sleepy town. First thought was to grab my radio equipment but actually forgot to grab cell phone (lesson #1.5 learned). Headed out the door…wife said in 6 minutes. Went north but turned toward Carnation Farm, I didn’t want to be stuck in the lineup to get passed the slide area near Stillwater Store. At that point a very fast trip toward the farm then I pulled into the elevated spot by the truck scale. Seemed to have bad reception and transmission in that spot. Heard some activity about the incident from a 2m repeater on Cougar Mtn. By now many more cars pull in behind us. I heard the following information, it was a false alarm and there was no police presence in town. But I did see King Cty heading down Hwy 203 from the north so I think they were getting into place. This might be a lesson learned for King Cty to take action immediately to head to the main intersection when it happens again which we hope is never. Like a fire drill it was good practice as we now know what to expect…God forbid the real one hits. Lastly I was giving some status to people up on the rise…”it was a false alarm per ham radio operators out there”. I don’t think they were taking my information seriously because they all seemed to be more engaged sharing, back and forth, information they were getting from their smart phones. I guess that’s okay this time but they’ll be shocked then next time when their phone service is completely down.

 

Rick

Kb7cin

From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io [mailto:snovarc@snovarc.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rowland
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 1:01 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io
Subject: [SnoVARC] Tolt Dam False Alarm

 

As some of you may know the Tolt Dam alarm went off this morning letting people know the dam had failed and to evacuate immediately. Luckily it was a false alarm but there was a lot of confusion of local Carnation residents on what was the alarm about and what were they suppose to do,  Hopefully the city of Carnation will arrange for some more info to be publish to the locals and this is also a golden opportunity for SnoVARC to talk about what our reaction should be to something like this.

 

This morning Paul, Shawn and myself were on the radio during this episode. We discussed it and I let them know it was a false alarm once I heard it from Kathy and SPU.

 

Hopefully this will turn into a great learning process for all concerned.

 

 

Thanks,

 

Rowland

 

Kathy K7KJB
 

I’m not sure Ken.  They were provided by Seattle Public Utilities’ Engineers.

 

Kathy

 

From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io <snovarc@snovarc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ken Kosters
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 3:59 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SnoVARC] Tolt Dam False Alarm

 

Are these water levels based on current river gauge readings for USGS?

Ken


On Jul 29, 2020, at 3:21 PM, Kathy K7KJB <kb1@...> wrote:

The Carnation-Duvall Citizen Corps recommends to people to take 10 minutes to get what they need and get out of their house. Use the next 50 minutes to get off the valley floor, whether that’s by walking up Evacuation Hill (no cars will be allowed) or drive out of town.  If yesterday was any indicator of traffic, it will be bad.  SPU says you have 1.4 hours, but that is until water is at peak depths.  You want to be out before that or you may not be getting out.

<image001.jpg>

Kathy, K7KJB

 

From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io <snovarc@snovarc.groups.io> On Behalf Of rn.noodle@...
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 2:44 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SnoVARC] Tolt Dam False Alarm

 

If I recall correctly, it’s a little over an 1 hr (according to SPU).

 

Rob Noonan

KJ7GIG

 

 

 

From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io <snovarc@snovarc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jackson Beard
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 2:27 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SnoVARC] Tolt Dam False Alarm

 

We dont need to guess. There's a comprehensive study in the possession of seattle water, and both fire districts. 

 

On Wed, Jul 29, 2020, 14:22 Paul Zoba <pezoba@...> wrote:

Man, sorry you had to go through that! That must have been scary!

 

I understand the dam is about 16 miles from Carnation. Has anyone ever guessed how long the water would take to get there? I suppose it depends on how big of a failure.

 

Best,

 

Paul, W7PEZ

 


On Jul 29, 2020, at 2:08 PM, Rick Burns <kb7cin@...> wrote:



Boy…we sure know. Just a few comments on my experience. Traffic was bad in our quiet sleepy town. First thought was to grab my radio equipment but actually forgot to grab cell phone (lesson #1.5 learned). Headed out the door…wife said in 6 minutes. Went north but turned toward Carnation Farm, I didn’t want to be stuck in the lineup to get passed the slide area near Stillwater Store. At that point a very fast trip toward the farm then I pulled into the elevated spot by the truck scale. Seemed to have bad reception and transmission in that spot. Heard some activity about the incident from a 2m repeater on Cougar Mtn. By now many more cars pull in behind us. I heard the following information, it was a false alarm and there was no police presence in town. But I did see King Cty heading down Hwy 203 from the north so I think they were getting into place. This might be a lesson learned for King Cty to take action immediately to head to the main intersection when it happens again which we hope is never. Like a fire drill it was good practice as we now know what to expect…God forbid the real one hits. Lastly I was giving some status to people up on the rise…”it was a false alarm per ham radio operators out there”. I don’t think they were taking my information seriously because they all seemed to be more engaged sharing, back and forth, information they were getting from their smart phones. I guess that’s okay this time but they’ll be shocked then next time when their phone service is completely down.

 

Rick

Kb7cin

From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io [mailto:snovarc@snovarc.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rowland
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 1:01 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io
Subject: [SnoVARC] Tolt Dam False Alarm

 

As some of you may know the Tolt Dam alarm went off this morning letting people know the dam had failed and to evacuate immediately. Luckily it was a false alarm but there was a lot of confusion of local Carnation residents on what was the alarm about and what were they suppose to do,  Hopefully the city of Carnation will arrange for some more info to be publish to the locals and this is also a golden opportunity for SnoVARC to talk about what our reaction should be to something like this.

 

This morning Paul, Shawn and myself were on the radio during this episode. We discussed it and I let them know it was a false alarm once I heard it from Kathy and SPU.

 

Hopefully this will turn into a great learning process for all concerned.

 

 

Thanks,

 

Rowland

 

Ken Kosters
 

The numbers need reference to actually be useful. Perhaps some reasearch is needed.



Ken

On Jul 29, 2020, at 8:19 PM, Kathy K7KJB <kb1@...> wrote:

I’m not sure Ken.  They were provided by Seattle Public Utilities’ Engineers.

 

Kathy

 

From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io <snovarc@snovarc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ken Kosters
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 3:59 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SnoVARC] Tolt Dam False Alarm

 

Are these water levels based on current river gauge readings for USGS?

Ken


On Jul 29, 2020, at 3:21 PM, Kathy K7KJB <kb1@...> wrote:

The Carnation-Duvall Citizen Corps recommends to people to take 10 minutes to get what they need and get out of their house. Use the next 50 minutes to get off the valley floor, whether that’s by walking up Evacuation Hill (no cars will be allowed) or drive out of town.  If yesterday was any indicator of traffic, it will be bad.  SPU says you have 1.4 hours, but that is until water is at peak depths.  You want to be out before that or you may not be getting out.

<image001.jpg>

Kathy, K7KJB

 

From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io <snovarc@snovarc.groups.io> On Behalf Of rn.noodle@...
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 2:44 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SnoVARC] Tolt Dam False Alarm

 

If I recall correctly, it’s a little over an 1 hr (according to SPU).

 

Rob Noonan

KJ7GIG

 

 

 

From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io <snovarc@snovarc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jackson Beard
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 2:27 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SnoVARC] Tolt Dam False Alarm

 

We dont need to guess. There's a comprehensive study in the possession of seattle water, and both fire districts. 

 

On Wed, Jul 29, 2020, 14:22 Paul Zoba <pezoba@...> wrote:

Man, sorry you had to go through that! That must have been scary!

 

I understand the dam is about 16 miles from Carnation. Has anyone ever guessed how long the water would take to get there? I suppose it depends on how big of a failure.

 

Best,

 

Paul, W7PEZ

 


On Jul 29, 2020, at 2:08 PM, Rick Burns <kb7cin@...> wrote:



Boy…we sure know. Just a few comments on my experience. Traffic was bad in our quiet sleepy town. First thought was to grab my radio equipment but actually forgot to grab cell phone (lesson #1.5 learned). Headed out the door…wife said in 6 minutes. Went north but turned toward Carnation Farm, I didn’t want to be stuck in the lineup to get passed the slide area near Stillwater Store. At that point a very fast trip toward the farm then I pulled into the elevated spot by the truck scale. Seemed to have bad reception and transmission in that spot. Heard some activity about the incident from a 2m repeater on Cougar Mtn. By now many more cars pull in behind us. I heard the following information, it was a false alarm and there was no police presence in town. But I did see King Cty heading down Hwy 203 from the north so I think they were getting into place. This might be a lesson learned for King Cty to take action immediately to head to the main intersection when it happens again which we hope is never. Like a fire drill it was good practice as we now know what to expect…God forbid the real one hits. Lastly I was giving some status to people up on the rise…”it was a false alarm per ham radio operators out there”. I don’t think they were taking my information seriously because they all seemed to be more engaged sharing, back and forth, information they were getting from their smart phones. I guess that’s okay this time but they’ll be shocked then next time when their phone service is completely down.

 

Rick

Kb7cin

From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io [mailto:snovarc@snovarc.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rowland
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 1:01 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io
Subject: [SnoVARC] Tolt Dam False Alarm

 

As some of you may know the Tolt Dam alarm went off this morning letting people know the dam had failed and to evacuate immediately. Luckily it was a false alarm but there was a lot of confusion of local Carnation residents on what was the alarm about and what were they suppose to do,  Hopefully the city of Carnation will arrange for some more info to be publish to the locals and this is also a golden opportunity for SnoVARC to talk about what our reaction should be to something like this.

 

This morning Paul, Shawn and myself were on the radio during this episode. We discussed it and I let them know it was a false alarm once I heard it from Kathy and SPU.

 

Hopefully this will turn into a great learning process for all concerned.

 

 

Thanks,

 

Rowland

 

Paul Butzi (W7PFB)
 

Knowing what the gauges in various locations would generally read is helpful.

The depth listed for “Tolt River Road” is 90 feet.  Generally the Tolt River Gauge, which is near the end of Tolt River Road, reads in the range 4-5 feet this time of year.  So regardless of whether the 90 foot number is relative to zero on the gauge, or relative to the ground, it makes essentially no difference.  90 feet of water is, for all practical purposes, essentially the same as 85 feet unless you happen to be 87 feet up the hill above.

This time of year, the Snoqualmie River gauge north of Carnation is generally reading about 45 feet, so that also seems like a clue, since the depth listed in East Carnation is 20 feet and the depth in Carnation proper is 4 feet.  Neither of those numbers make sense relative to the Carnation gauge.

The Duvall gauge generally is around 20 feet at this time of year.  A depth of 4 feet makes no sense if it’s relative to zero on that gauge.

So I would guess the numbers listed as “Depth of Water” are depths above ground.  But also I expect it will not be water that arrives in Carnation at a depth of 4 feet, it will be water, trees, boulders and rocks, and all the houses, cars, etc. in the Swiftwater development.  And it’s going to be going 10 miles an hour.  I

-p W7PFB
73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!

On Jul 30, 2020, at 6:21 AM, Ken Kosters <kenkosters@...> wrote:

The numbers need reference to actually be useful. Perhaps some reasearch is needed.



Ken

On Jul 29, 2020, at 8:19 PM, Kathy K7KJB <kb1@...> wrote:

I’m not sure Ken.  They were provided by Seattle Public Utilities’ Engineers.
 
Kathy
 
From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io <snovarc@snovarc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ken Kosters
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 3:59 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SnoVARC] Tolt Dam False Alarm
 

Are these water levels based on current river gauge readings for USGS?

Ken


On Jul 29, 2020, at 3:21 PM, Kathy K7KJB <kb1@...> wrote:

The Carnation-Duvall Citizen Corps recommends to people to take 10 minutes to get what they need and get out of their house. Use the next 50 minutes to get off the valley floor, whether that’s by walking up Evacuation Hill (no cars will be allowed) or drive out of town.  If yesterday was any indicator of traffic, it will be bad.  SPU says you have 1.4 hours, but that is until water is at peak depths.  You want to be out before that or you may not be getting out.
<image001.jpg>
Kathy, K7KJB
 
From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io <snovarc@snovarc.groups.io> On Behalf Of rn.noodle@...
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 2:44 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SnoVARC] Tolt Dam False Alarm
 
If I recall correctly, it’s a little over an 1 hr (according to SPU).
 
Rob Noonan
KJ7GIG
 
 
 
From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io <snovarc@snovarc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jackson Beard
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 2:27 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SnoVARC] Tolt Dam False Alarm
 
We dont need to guess. There's a comprehensive study in the possession of seattle water, and both fire districts. 
 
On Wed, Jul 29, 2020, 14:22 Paul Zoba <pezoba@...> wrote:
Man, sorry you had to go through that! That must have been scary!
 
I understand the dam is about 16 miles from Carnation. Has anyone ever guessed how long the water would take to get there? I suppose it depends on how big of a failure.
 
Best,
 
Paul, W7PEZ
 

On Jul 29, 2020, at 2:08 PM, Rick Burns <kb7cin@...> wrote:
 
Boy…we sure know. Just a few comments on my experience. Traffic was bad in our quiet sleepy town. First thought was to grab my radio equipment but actually forgot to grab cell phone (lesson #1.5 learned). Headed out the door…wife said in 6 minutes. Went north but turned toward Carnation Farm, I didn’t want to be stuck in the lineup to get passed the slide area near Stillwater Store. At that point a very fast trip toward the farm then I pulled into the elevated spot by the truck scale. Seemed to have bad reception and transmission in that spot. Heard some activity about the incident from a 2m repeater on Cougar Mtn. By now many more cars pull in behind us. I heard the following information, it was a false alarm and there was no police presence in town. But I did see King Cty heading down Hwy 203 from the north so I think they were getting into place. This might be a lesson learned for King Cty to take action immediately to head to the main intersection when it happens again which we hope is never. Like a fire drill it was good practice as we now know what to expect…God forbid the real one hits. Lastly I was giving some status to people up on the rise…”it was a false alarm per ham radio operators out there”. I don’t think they were taking my information seriously because they all seemed to be more engaged sharing, back and forth, information they were getting from their smart phones. I guess that’s okay this time but they’ll be shocked then next time when their phone service is completely down.
 
Rick
Kb7cin
From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io [mailto:snovarc@snovarc.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rowland
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 1:01 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io
Subject: [SnoVARC] Tolt Dam False Alarm
 
As some of you may know the Tolt Dam alarm went off this morning letting people know the dam had failed and to evacuate immediately. Luckily it was a false alarm but there was a lot of confusion of local Carnation residents on what was the alarm about and what were they suppose to do,  Hopefully the city of Carnation will arrange for some more info to be publish to the locals and this is also a golden opportunity for SnoVARC to talk about what our reaction should be to something like this.
 
This morning Paul, Shawn and myself were on the radio during this episode. We discussed it and I let them know it was a false alarm once I heard it from Kathy and SPU.
 
Hopefully this will turn into a great learning process for all concerned.
 
 
Thanks,
 
Rowland
 


Ryan - KJ7GIE
 

I thought the depth was relative to sea level. At least that's what I have been using to determine which parts of my house will be under water.

Paul Butzi (W7PFB)
 

Wikipedia suggests the altitude of Carnation is 82 feet above sea level. Where, exactly, in Carnation that would be, I have no idea.

But if the altitude in town is *generally around 80 feet* then a depth above sea level of 4 feet makes no sense, as there will be no place in Carnation that is that low.

-p W7PFB
73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!

On Aug 3, 2020, at 1:44 PM, Ryan - KJ7GIE <@KJ7GIE> wrote:

I thought the depth was relative to sea level. At least that's what I have been using to determine which parts of my house will be under water.