Topics

W7PFB-10 Winlink RMS changes


Paul Butzi (W7PFB)
 

If you’re not using my Winlink RMS stations W7PFB-10, you can ignore this email.

If you’re using W7PFB-10 to connect to Winlink, but are not interested in the details, all you need to know is that I’ve made a bunch of changes, so if you run into trouble or have other feedback, please let me know.

If you’re interested in the nitty gritty, read on:

The station used to be:
Kenwood TM-D710G dualband radio
Windows Laptop running the RMS software configured to use the TNC built in to the Kenwood radio to do 1200 baud packet
VARA FM software using a Masters Communications DRA-50 sound card connected to the data port on the Kenwood to do VARA FM WIDE.

The station is now:
Alinco DR-135T 2m radio
The same Windows laptop using the RMS software
Masters Communications DRA-50 soundcard connected to the data port of the DR-135T
Soundmodem software using the DRA-50 to do 1200 baud packet
VARA FM software using the DRA-50 to do VARA FM WIDE

Please send any questions or comments you might have!

-p W7PFB
73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!


Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM
 

Cool. Sounds like you were busy. I will give this a try later.

Question - is there a way to disable the Narrow VARA FM to "temporarily" test FM WIDE only?

-----Original Message-----
From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io <snovarc@snovarc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul Butzi (W7PFB)
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 4:23 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io; Lynn Burlingame <n7cfo@...>
Subject: [SnoVARC] W7PFB-10 Winlink RMS changes

If you’re not using my Winlink RMS stations W7PFB-10, you can ignore this email.

If you’re using W7PFB-10 to connect to Winlink, but are not interested in the details, all you need to know is that I’ve made a bunch of changes, so if you run into trouble or have other feedback, please let me know.

If you’re interested in the nitty gritty, read on:

The station used to be:
Kenwood TM-D710G dualband radio
Windows Laptop running the RMS software configured to use the TNC built in to the Kenwood radio to do 1200 baud packet VARA FM software using a Masters Communications DRA-50 sound card connected to the data port on the Kenwood to do VARA FM WIDE.

The station is now:
Alinco DR-135T 2m radio
The same Windows laptop using the RMS software Masters Communications DRA-50 soundcard connected to the data port of the DR-135T Soundmodem software using the DRA-50 to do 1200 baud packet VARA FM software using the DRA-50 to do VARA FM WIDE

Please send any questions or comments you might have!

-p W7PFB
73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!







--
*************************
Howard E. Mahran
WA1HEM
(425) 864 - 5104
*************************


Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM
 

Ok I just tested both FM Narrow and Wide using just my IC9700 (no external sound card)

The NARROW setting was twice as fast and the WIDE. See attached images. So my guess is that Im not really sending wide even though VARA FM is set to WIDE... maybe some type of stepping down when connected causing a slower transmission. Im not sure... regardless... even in NARROW mode, the speed was awesomely fast (Compared to Vara on HF)

-----Original Message-----
From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io <snovarc@snovarc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 4:57 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io; 'Lynn Burlingame' <n7cfo@...>
Subject: Re: [SnoVARC] W7PFB-10 Winlink RMS changes

Cool. Sounds like you were busy. I will give this a try later.

Question - is there a way to disable the Narrow VARA FM to "temporarily" test FM WIDE only?

-----Original Message-----
From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io <snovarc@snovarc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul Butzi (W7PFB)
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 4:23 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io; Lynn Burlingame <n7cfo@...>
Subject: [SnoVARC] W7PFB-10 Winlink RMS changes

If you’re not using my Winlink RMS stations W7PFB-10, you can ignore this email.

If you’re using W7PFB-10 to connect to Winlink, but are not interested in the details, all you need to know is that I’ve made a bunch of changes, so if you run into trouble or have other feedback, please let me know.

If you’re interested in the nitty gritty, read on:

The station used to be:
Kenwood TM-D710G dualband radio
Windows Laptop running the RMS software configured to use the TNC built in to the Kenwood radio to do 1200 baud packet VARA FM software using a Masters Communications DRA-50 sound card connected to the data port on the Kenwood to do VARA FM WIDE.

The station is now:
Alinco DR-135T 2m radio
The same Windows laptop using the RMS software Masters Communications DRA-50 soundcard connected to the data port of the DR-135T Soundmodem software using the DRA-50 to do 1200 baud packet VARA FM software using the DRA-50 to do VARA FM WIDE

Please send any questions or comments you might have!

-p W7PFB
73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!







--
*************************
Howard E. Mahran
WA1HEM
(425) 864 - 5104
*************************





--
*************************
Howard E. Mahran
WA1HEM
(425) 864 - 5104
*************************


Paul Butzi (W7PFB)
 

Ok, so this is very interesting. I got the email which I think you sent as a test. Gettysburg Address?

I just did a little experiment, sending from one laptop thru a DRA-36 and a Kenwood TM-D710G, sending an email that contains a 10k byte word english word list. (winlink compresses email, I wanted some representative text and this was a handy way to get it about 10kilobytes of text.

Sending with VARA set to wide mode, it transferred the email in 7 seconds. In VARA wide mode, it transferred an identical email in 15 seconds. Call it a factor of two difference in speed.

The problem here is that the overhead is large relative to the time needed to transfer the email. Improving the transport speed does not do much to cut overall time unless the overhead is small relative to the data transfer time.

Anyway it would be interesting if you could repeat the experiment with a longer text and see what you get.

There’s a lot to learn about VARA and how the wide/narrow thing works.

And probably also about the 9700 built in sound card.

-p W7PFB
73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!

On Sep 12, 2020, at 5:33 PM, Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM <wa1hem@...> wrote:

Ok I just tested both FM Narrow and Wide using just my IC9700 (no external sound card)

The NARROW setting was twice as fast and the WIDE. See attached images. So my guess is that Im not really sending wide even though VARA FM is set to WIDE... maybe some type of stepping down when connected causing a slower transmission. Im not sure... regardless... even in NARROW mode, the speed was awesomely fast (Compared to Vara on HF)




-----Original Message-----
From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io <snovarc@snovarc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 4:57 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io; 'Lynn Burlingame' <n7cfo@...>
Subject: Re: [SnoVARC] W7PFB-10 Winlink RMS changes

Cool. Sounds like you were busy. I will give this a try later.

Question - is there a way to disable the Narrow VARA FM to "temporarily" test FM WIDE only?

-----Original Message-----
From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io <snovarc@snovarc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul Butzi (W7PFB)
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 4:23 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io; Lynn Burlingame <n7cfo@...>
Subject: [SnoVARC] W7PFB-10 Winlink RMS changes

If you’re not using my Winlink RMS stations W7PFB-10, you can ignore this email.

If you’re using W7PFB-10 to connect to Winlink, but are not interested in the details, all you need to know is that I’ve made a bunch of changes, so if you run into trouble or have other feedback, please let me know.

If you’re interested in the nitty gritty, read on:

The station used to be:
Kenwood TM-D710G dualband radio
Windows Laptop running the RMS software configured to use the TNC built in to the Kenwood radio to do 1200 baud packet VARA FM software using a Masters Communications DRA-50 sound card connected to the data port on the Kenwood to do VARA FM WIDE.

The station is now:
Alinco DR-135T 2m radio
The same Windows laptop using the RMS software Masters Communications DRA-50 soundcard connected to the data port of the DR-135T Soundmodem software using the DRA-50 to do 1200 baud packet VARA FM software using the DRA-50 to do VARA FM WIDE

Please send any questions or comments you might have!

-p W7PFB
73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!







--
*************************
Howard E. Mahran
WA1HEM
(425) 864 - 5104
*************************





--
*************************
Howard E. Mahran
WA1HEM
(425) 864 - 5104
*************************



<Vara FM Narrow.PNG><Vara FM Wide.PNG>


Paul Butzi (W7PFB)
 

Correction: wide mode 7 seconds narrow mode 15 seconds. Sheesh. Must. Get. More. Coffee.

-p W7PFB
73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!

On Sep 13, 2020, at 2:33 PM, Paul Butzi (W7PFB) <w7pfb@...> wrote:

Ok, so this is very interesting. I got the email which I think you sent as a test. Gettysburg Address?

I just did a little experiment, sending from one laptop thru a DRA-36 and a Kenwood TM-D710G, sending an email that contains a 10k byte word english word list. (winlink compresses email, I wanted some representative text and this was a handy way to get it about 10kilobytes of text.

Sending with VARA set to wide mode, it transferred the email in 7 seconds. In VARA wide mode, it transferred an identical email in 15 seconds. Call it a factor of two difference in speed.

The problem here is that the overhead is large relative to the time needed to transfer the email. Improving the transport speed does not do much to cut overall time unless the overhead is small relative to the data transfer time.

Anyway it would be interesting if you could repeat the experiment with a longer text and see what you get.

There’s a lot to learn about VARA and how the wide/narrow thing works.

And probably also about the 9700 built in sound card.

-p W7PFB
73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!

On Sep 12, 2020, at 5:33 PM, Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM <wa1hem@...> wrote:

Ok I just tested both FM Narrow and Wide using just my IC9700 (no external sound card)

The NARROW setting was twice as fast and the WIDE. See attached images. So my guess is that Im not really sending wide even though VARA FM is set to WIDE... maybe some type of stepping down when connected causing a slower transmission. Im not sure... regardless... even in NARROW mode, the speed was awesomely fast (Compared to Vara on HF)




-----Original Message-----
From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io <snovarc@snovarc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 4:57 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io; 'Lynn Burlingame' <n7cfo@...>
Subject: Re: [SnoVARC] W7PFB-10 Winlink RMS changes

Cool. Sounds like you were busy. I will give this a try later.

Question - is there a way to disable the Narrow VARA FM to "temporarily" test FM WIDE only?

-----Original Message-----
From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io <snovarc@snovarc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul Butzi (W7PFB)
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 4:23 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io; Lynn Burlingame <n7cfo@...>
Subject: [SnoVARC] W7PFB-10 Winlink RMS changes

If you’re not using my Winlink RMS stations W7PFB-10, you can ignore this email.

If you’re using W7PFB-10 to connect to Winlink, but are not interested in the details, all you need to know is that I’ve made a bunch of changes, so if you run into trouble or have other feedback, please let me know.

If you’re interested in the nitty gritty, read on:

The station used to be:
Kenwood TM-D710G dualband radio
Windows Laptop running the RMS software configured to use the TNC built in to the Kenwood radio to do 1200 baud packet VARA FM software using a Masters Communications DRA-50 sound card connected to the data port on the Kenwood to do VARA FM WIDE.

The station is now:
Alinco DR-135T 2m radio
The same Windows laptop using the RMS software Masters Communications DRA-50 soundcard connected to the data port of the DR-135T Soundmodem software using the DRA-50 to do 1200 baud packet VARA FM software using the DRA-50 to do VARA FM WIDE

Please send any questions or comments you might have!

-p W7PFB
73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!







--
*************************
Howard E. Mahran
WA1HEM
(425) 864 - 5104
*************************





--
*************************
Howard E. Mahran
WA1HEM
(425) 864 - 5104
*************************



<Vara FM Narrow.PNG><Vara FM Wide.PNG>



Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM
 

This is the same speed differential that I got. Your overhead idea is interesting. I'll try experimenting with a much larger file and post the speed results here.

P.S. ...Yes - my first test email was the Gettysburg Address 😊

-----Original Message-----
From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io <snovarc@snovarc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul Butzi (W7PFB)
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2020 2:35 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SnoVARC] W7PFB-10 Winlink RMS changes

Correction: wide mode 7 seconds narrow mode 15 seconds. Sheesh. Must. Get. More. Coffee.

-p W7PFB
73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!

On Sep 13, 2020, at 2:33 PM, Paul Butzi (W7PFB) <w7pfb@...> wrote:

Ok, so this is very interesting. I got the email which I think you sent as a test. Gettysburg Address?

I just did a little experiment, sending from one laptop thru a DRA-36 and a Kenwood TM-D710G, sending an email that contains a 10k byte word english word list. (winlink compresses email, I wanted some representative text and this was a handy way to get it about 10kilobytes of text.

Sending with VARA set to wide mode, it transferred the email in 7 seconds. In VARA wide mode, it transferred an identical email in 15 seconds. Call it a factor of two difference in speed.

The problem here is that the overhead is large relative to the time needed to transfer the email. Improving the transport speed does not do much to cut overall time unless the overhead is small relative to the data transfer time.

Anyway it would be interesting if you could repeat the experiment with a longer text and see what you get.

There’s a lot to learn about VARA and how the wide/narrow thing works.

And probably also about the 9700 built in sound card.

-p W7PFB
73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!

On Sep 12, 2020, at 5:33 PM, Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM <wa1hem@...> wrote:

Ok I just tested both FM Narrow and Wide using just my IC9700 (no external sound card)

The NARROW setting was twice as fast and the WIDE. See attached images. So my guess is that Im not really sending wide even though VARA FM is set to WIDE... maybe some type of stepping down when connected causing a slower transmission. Im not sure... regardless... even in NARROW mode, the speed was awesomely fast (Compared to Vara on HF)




-----Original Message-----
From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io <snovarc@snovarc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 4:57 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io; 'Lynn Burlingame' <n7cfo@...>
Subject: Re: [SnoVARC] W7PFB-10 Winlink RMS changes

Cool. Sounds like you were busy. I will give this a try later.

Question - is there a way to disable the Narrow VARA FM to "temporarily" test FM WIDE only?

-----Original Message-----
From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io <snovarc@snovarc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul Butzi (W7PFB)
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 4:23 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io; Lynn Burlingame <n7cfo@...>
Subject: [SnoVARC] W7PFB-10 Winlink RMS changes

If you’re not using my Winlink RMS stations W7PFB-10, you can ignore this email.

If you’re using W7PFB-10 to connect to Winlink, but are not interested in the details, all you need to know is that I’ve made a bunch of changes, so if you run into trouble or have other feedback, please let me know.

If you’re interested in the nitty gritty, read on:

The station used to be:
Kenwood TM-D710G dualband radio
Windows Laptop running the RMS software configured to use the TNC built in to the Kenwood radio to do 1200 baud packet VARA FM software using a Masters Communications DRA-50 sound card connected to the data port on the Kenwood to do VARA FM WIDE.

The station is now:
Alinco DR-135T 2m radio
The same Windows laptop using the RMS software Masters Communications DRA-50 soundcard connected to the data port of the DR-135T Soundmodem software using the DRA-50 to do 1200 baud packet VARA FM software using the DRA-50 to do VARA FM WIDE

Please send any questions or comments you might have!

-p W7PFB
73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!







--
*************************
Howard E. Mahran
WA1HEM
(425) 864 - 5104
*************************





--
*************************
Howard E. Mahran
WA1HEM
(425) 864 - 5104
*************************



<Vara FM Narrow.PNG><Vara FM Wide.PNG>








--
*************************
Howard E. Mahran
WA1HEM
(425) 864 - 5104
*************************


Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM
 

Just attempted 2 tests using 2 separate larger file types:

1) Image attached to an email
2) Large Text Email 

The first email with the image file attached was rejected in both Narrow and Wide mode. Maybe it was too big to send or the RMS station has a maximum file size that I exceeded
The second email test was with a multipage text-based email.

Results are even more dramatic versus the first tests that you and I ran. Narrow was over FIVE times as  fast as Wide:

NARROW:

*** Completed send of message KUZD9IEXAAX3

*** Sent 1 message.  Bytes: 8357,  Time: 00:19,  bytes/minute: 26286

   FQ

*** Disconnected from Winlink RMS: W7PFB-10 @ 2020/09/13 22:26:03

*** Session: 0.6 min;  Avg Throughput: 14998 Bytes/min;   1 Min Peak Throughput: 14998 Bytes/min

 

WIDE MODE:

*** Completed send of message PIIWPT10E4ES

*** Sent 1 message.  Bytes: 8343,  Time: 01:30,  bytes/minute: 5503

   FQ

*** Disconnected from Winlink RMS: W7PFB-10 @ 2020/09/13 22:31:45

*** Session: 1.7 min;  Avg Throughput: 4814 Bytes/min;   1 Min Peak Throughput: 4814 Bytes/min




--
*************************
Howard E. Mahran
WA1HEM
(425) 864 - 5104
*************************


Paul Butzi (W7PFB)
 

Yeah, there’s something going wrong with the wide mode.  I suspect that it gets huge error rates in wide mode, which cuts the thruput way back.

Doing some research it seems the bandwidth of the internal soundcard is limited to 2.5khz, not enough for wide mode.  So I expect that’s what is going on.

Even worse, apparently the 6 pin mini-din connector does not give you the access points in the audio chain that you need to do wide mode either.  So you can’t even use an external sound card to do it.  (although I think some experimenting is in order to verify that).


-p W7PFB
73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!

On Sep 13, 2020, at 3:40 PM, Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM <wa1hem@...> wrote:

Just attempted 2 tests using 2 separate larger file types:

1) Image attached to an email
2) Large Text Email 

The first email with the image file attached was rejected in both Narrow and Wide mode. Maybe it was too big to send or the RMS station has a maximum file size that I exceeded
The second email test was with a multipage text-based email.

Results are even more dramatic versus the first tests that you and I ran. Narrow was over FIVE times as  fast as Wide:

NARROW:
*** Completed send of message KUZD9IEXAAX3
*** Sent 1 message.  Bytes: 8357,  Time: 00:19,  bytes/minute: 26286
   FQ
*** Disconnected from Winlink RMS: W7PFB-10 @ 2020/09/13 22:26:03
*** Session: 0.6 min;  Avg Throughput: 14998 Bytes/min;   1 Min Peak Throughput: 14998 Bytes/min

 

WIDE MODE:
*** Completed send of message PIIWPT10E4ES
*** Sent 1 message.  Bytes: 8343,  Time: 01:30,  bytes/minute: 5503
   FQ
*** Disconnected from Winlink RMS: W7PFB-10 @ 2020/09/13 22:31:45
*** Session: 1.7 min;  Avg Throughput: 4814 Bytes/min;   1 Min Peak Throughput: 4814 Bytes/min



--
*************************
Howard E. Mahran
WA1HEM
(425) 864 - 5104
*************************


Paul Zoba
 

Paul, are you referring to the internal sound card in the 9700?


On Sep 13, 2020, at 3:45 PM, Paul Butzi (W7PFB) <w7pfb@...> wrote:

Yeah, there’s something going wrong with the wide mode.  I suspect that it gets huge error rates in wide mode, which cuts the thruput way back.

Doing some research it seems the bandwidth of the internal soundcard is limited to 2.5khz, not enough for wide mode.  So I expect that’s what is going on.

Even worse, apparently the 6 pin mini-din connector does not give you the access points in the audio chain that you need to do wide mode either.  So you can’t even use an external sound card to do it.  (although I think some experimenting is in order to verify that).


-p W7PFB
73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!

On Sep 13, 2020, at 3:40 PM, Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM <wa1hem@...> wrote:

Just attempted 2 tests using 2 separate larger file types:

1) Image attached to an email
2) Large Text Email 

The first email with the image file attached was rejected in both Narrow and Wide mode. Maybe it was too big to send or the RMS station has a maximum file size that I exceeded
The second email test was with a multipage text-based email.

Results are even more dramatic versus the first tests that you and I ran. Narrow was over FIVE times as  fast as Wide:

NARROW:
*** Completed send of message KUZD9IEXAAX3
*** Sent 1 message.  Bytes: 8357,  Time: 00:19,  bytes/minute: 26286
   FQ
*** Disconnected from Winlink RMS: W7PFB-10 @ 2020/09/13 22:26:03
*** Session: 0.6 min;  Avg Throughput: 14998 Bytes/min;   1 Min Peak Throughput: 14998 Bytes/min

 

WIDE MODE:
*** Completed send of message PIIWPT10E4ES
*** Sent 1 message.  Bytes: 8343,  Time: 01:30,  bytes/minute: 5503
   FQ
*** Disconnected from Winlink RMS: W7PFB-10 @ 2020/09/13 22:31:45
*** Session: 1.7 min;  Avg Throughput: 4814 Bytes/min;   1 Min Peak Throughput: 4814 Bytes/min



--
*************************
Howard E. Mahran
WA1HEM
(425) 864 - 5104
*************************


Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM
 

Interesting. So even with the DRA-50 as an external card connected to the IC9700 wont work….oh well.. I’ve heard rumors that with an external card the Yeasu FT991a should be able to handle WIDE mode…

 

The Narrow mode is pretty fast for most applications.

 

From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io <snovarc@snovarc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul Butzi (W7PFB)
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2020 3:45 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SnoVARC] W7PFB-10 Winlink RMS changes

 

Yeah, there’s something going wrong with the wide mode.  I suspect that it gets huge error rates in wide mode, which cuts the thruput way back.

 

Doing some research it seems the bandwidth of the internal soundcard is limited to 2.5khz, not enough for wide mode.  So I expect that’s what is going on.

 

Even worse, apparently the 6 pin mini-din connector does not give you the access points in the audio chain that you need to do wide mode either.  So you can’t even use an external sound card to do it.  (although I think some experimenting is in order to verify that).

 

 

-p W7PFB
73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!



On Sep 13, 2020, at 3:40 PM, Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM <wa1hem@...> wrote:

 

Just attempted 2 tests using 2 separate larger file types:

1) Image attached to an email
2) Large Text Email 

The first email with the image file attached was rejected in both Narrow and Wide mode. Maybe it was too big to send or the RMS station has a maximum file size that I exceeded
The second email test was with a multipage text-based email.

Results are even more dramatic versus the first tests that you and I ran. Narrow was over FIVE times as  fast as Wide:

NARROW:

*** Completed send of message KUZD9IEXAAX3

*** Sent 1 message.  Bytes: 8357,  Time: 00:19,  bytes/minute: 26286

   FQ

*** Disconnected from Winlink RMS: W7PFB-10 @ 2020/09/13 22:26:03

*** Session: 0.6 min;  Avg Throughput: 14998 Bytes/min;   1 Min Peak Throughput: 14998 Bytes/min

 

WIDE MODE:

*** Completed send of message PIIWPT10E4ES

*** Sent 1 message.  Bytes: 8343,  Time: 01:30,  bytes/minute: 5503

   FQ

*** Disconnected from Winlink RMS: W7PFB-10 @ 2020/09/13 22:31:45

*** Session: 1.7 min;  Avg Throughput: 4814 Bytes/min;   1 Min Peak Throughput: 4814 Bytes/min




--
*************************
Howard E. Mahran
WA1HEM
(425) 864 - 5104
*************************

 


--
*************************
Howard E. Mahran
WA1HEM
(425) 864 - 5104
*************************


Paul Butzi (W7PFB)
 

Yes.

-p W7PFB
73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!

On Sep 13, 2020, at 3:51 PM, Paul Zoba <pezoba@...> wrote:

Paul, are you referring to the internal sound card in the 9700?


On Sep 13, 2020, at 3:45 PM, Paul Butzi (W7PFB) <w7pfb@...> wrote:

Yeah, there’s something going wrong with the wide mode.  I suspect that it gets huge error rates in wide mode, which cuts the thruput way back.

Doing some research it seems the bandwidth of the internal soundcard is limited to 2.5khz, not enough for wide mode.  So I expect that’s what is going on.

Even worse, apparently the 6 pin mini-din connector does not give you the access points in the audio chain that you need to do wide mode either.  So you can’t even use an external sound card to do it.  (although I think some experimenting is in order to verify that).


-p W7PFB
73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!

On Sep 13, 2020, at 3:40 PM, Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM <wa1hem@...> wrote:

Just attempted 2 tests using 2 separate larger file types:

1) Image attached to an email
2) Large Text Email 

The first email with the image file attached was rejected in both Narrow and Wide mode. Maybe it was too big to send or the RMS station has a maximum file size that I exceeded
The second email test was with a multipage text-based email.

Results are even more dramatic versus the first tests that you and I ran. Narrow was over FIVE times as  fast as Wide:

NARROW:
*** Completed send of message KUZD9IEXAAX3
*** Sent 1 message.  Bytes: 8357,  Time: 00:19,  bytes/minute: 26286
   FQ
*** Disconnected from Winlink RMS: W7PFB-10 @ 2020/09/13 22:26:03
*** Session: 0.6 min;  Avg Throughput: 14998 Bytes/min;   1 Min Peak Throughput: 14998 Bytes/min

 

WIDE MODE:
*** Completed send of message PIIWPT10E4ES
*** Sent 1 message.  Bytes: 8343,  Time: 01:30,  bytes/minute: 5503
   FQ
*** Disconnected from Winlink RMS: W7PFB-10 @ 2020/09/13 22:31:45
*** Session: 1.7 min;  Avg Throughput: 4814 Bytes/min;   1 Min Peak Throughput: 4814 Bytes/min



--
*************************
Howard E. Mahran
WA1HEM
(425) 864 - 5104
*************************



Shawn / K7ATA
 

so I did some research on this, and the data port on the ic9700 is connected pre-discriminator, as is the internal soundcard interface. Unfortunately, nobody has documented a modification to change that.

--Shawn
--K7ATA

On 9/13/2020 3:53 PM, Paul Butzi (W7PFB) wrote:
Yes.

-p W7PFB
73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!

On Sep 13, 2020, at 3:51 PM, Paul Zoba <pezoba@... <mailto:pezoba@...>> wrote:

Paul, are you referring to the internal sound card in the 9700?


On Sep 13, 2020, at 3:45 PM, Paul Butzi (W7PFB) <w7pfb@... <mailto:w7pfb@...>> wrote:

 Yeah, there’s something going wrong with the wide mode.  I suspect that it gets huge error rates in wide mode, which cuts the thruput way back.

Doing some research it seems the bandwidth of the internal soundcard is limited to 2.5khz, not enough for wide mode.  So I expect that’s what is going on.

Even worse, apparently the 6 pin mini-din connector does not give you the access points in the audio chain that you need to do wide mode either.  So you can’t even use an external sound card to do it.  (although I think some experimenting is in order to verify that).


-p W7PFB
73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!

On Sep 13, 2020, at 3:40 PM, Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM <wa1hem@... <mailto:wa1hem@...>> wrote:

Just attempted 2 tests using 2 separate larger file types:

1) Image attached to an email
2) Large Text Email

The first email with the image file attached was rejected in both Narrow and Wide mode. Maybe it was too big to send or the RMS station has a maximum file size that I exceeded
The second email test was with a multipage text-based email.

Results are even more dramatic versus the first tests that you and I ran. Narrow was *over FIVE times* as  fast as Wide:

NARROW:
*** Completed send of message KUZD9IEXAAX3
*** Sent 1 message. *Bytes: 8357,  Time: 00:19,  bytes/minute: 2628*6
   FQ
*** Disconnected from Winlink RMS: W7PFB-10 @ 2020/09/13 22:26:03
*** Session: *0.6 min*; Avg Throughput: 14998 Bytes/min;   1 Min Peak Throughput: 14998 Bytes/min

WIDE MODE:
*** Completed send of message PIIWPT10E4ES
*** Sent 1 message. *Bytes: 8343,  Time: 01:30,  bytes/minute: 5503*
   FQ
*** Disconnected from Winlink RMS: W7PFB-10 @ 2020/09/13 22:31:45
*** Session: *1.7 min*; Avg Throughput: 4814 Bytes/min;   1 Min Peak Throughput: 4814 Bytes/min



--
*************************
Howard E. Mahran
WA1HEM
(425) 864 - 5104
*************************


Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM
 

Well that’s too bad - I guess I jumped the gun on the DRA-50 ☹

Thanks for investigating...

-----Original Message-----
From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io <snovarc@snovarc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shawn / K7ATA
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 3:40 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SnoVARC] W7PFB-10 Winlink RMS changes

so I did some research on this, and the data port on the ic9700 is connected pre-discriminator, as is the internal soundcard interface.
Unfortunately, nobody has documented a modification to change that.

--Shawn
--K7ATA

On 9/13/2020 3:53 PM, Paul Butzi (W7PFB) wrote:
Yes.

-p W7PFB
73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!

On Sep 13, 2020, at 3:51 PM, Paul Zoba <pezoba@...
<mailto:pezoba@...>> wrote:

Paul, are you referring to the internal sound card in the 9700?


On Sep 13, 2020, at 3:45 PM, Paul Butzi (W7PFB) <w7pfb@...
<mailto:w7pfb@...>> wrote:

 Yeah, there’s something going wrong with the wide mode. I suspect
that it gets huge error rates in wide mode, which cuts the thruput
way back.

Doing some research it seems the bandwidth of the internal soundcard
is limited to 2.5khz, not enough for wide mode. So I expect that’s
what is going on.

Even worse, apparently the 6 pin mini-din connector does not give you
the access points in the audio chain that you need to do wide mode
either. So you can’t even use an external sound card to do it.
(although I think some experimenting is in order to verify that).


-p W7PFB
73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!

On Sep 13, 2020, at 3:40 PM, Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM
<wa1hem@... <mailto:wa1hem@...>> wrote:

Just attempted 2 tests using 2 separate larger file types:

1) Image attached to an email
2) Large Text Email

The first email with the image file attached was rejected in both
Narrow and Wide mode. Maybe it was too big to send or the RMS
station has a maximum file size that I exceeded The second email
test was with a multipage text-based email.

Results are even more dramatic versus the first tests that you and I
ran. Narrow was *over FIVE times* as fast as Wide:

NARROW:
*** Completed send of message KUZD9IEXAAX3
*** Sent 1 message. *Bytes: 8357, Time: 00:19, bytes/minute:
2628*6
FQ
*** Disconnected from Winlink RMS: W7PFB-10 @ 2020/09/13 22:26:03
*** Session: *0.6 min*; Avg Throughput: 14998 Bytes/min; 1 Min
Peak Throughput: 14998 Bytes/min

WIDE MODE:
*** Completed send of message PIIWPT10E4ES
*** Sent 1 message. *Bytes: 8343, Time: 01:30, bytes/minute: 5503*
FQ
*** Disconnected from Winlink RMS: W7PFB-10 @ 2020/09/13 22:31:45
*** Session: *1.7 min*; Avg Throughput: 4814 Bytes/min; 1 Min Peak
Throughput: 4814 Bytes/min



--
*************************
Howard E. Mahran
WA1HEM
(425) 864 - 5104
*************************







--
*************************
Howard E. Mahran
WA1HEM
(425) 864 - 5104
*************************


Shawn / K7ATA
 

the nice part is that the DRA-50 is NOT radio specific, and at some point you may have additional radios that are compatible with wide mode.

--Shawn
--K7ATA

On 9/15/2020 7:25 PM, Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM wrote:
Well that’s too bad - I guess I jumped the gun on the DRA-50 ☹

Thanks for investigating...

-----Original Message-----
From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io <snovarc@snovarc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shawn / K7ATA
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 3:40 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SnoVARC] W7PFB-10 Winlink RMS changes

so I did some research on this, and the data port on the ic9700 is connected pre-discriminator, as is the internal soundcard interface.
Unfortunately, nobody has documented a modification to change that.

--Shawn
--K7ATA

On 9/13/2020 3:53 PM, Paul Butzi (W7PFB) wrote:
Yes.

-p W7PFB
73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!

On Sep 13, 2020, at 3:51 PM, Paul Zoba <pezoba@...
<mailto:pezoba@...>> wrote:

Paul, are you referring to the internal sound card in the 9700?


On Sep 13, 2020, at 3:45 PM, Paul Butzi (W7PFB) <w7pfb@...
<mailto:w7pfb@...>> wrote:

 Yeah, there’s something going wrong with the wide mode. I suspect
that it gets huge error rates in wide mode, which cuts the thruput
way back.

Doing some research it seems the bandwidth of the internal soundcard
is limited to 2.5khz, not enough for wide mode. So I expect that’s
what is going on.

Even worse, apparently the 6 pin mini-din connector does not give you
the access points in the audio chain that you need to do wide mode
either. So you can’t even use an external sound card to do it.
(although I think some experimenting is in order to verify that).


-p W7PFB
73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!

On Sep 13, 2020, at 3:40 PM, Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM
<wa1hem@... <mailto:wa1hem@...>> wrote:

Just attempted 2 tests using 2 separate larger file types:

1) Image attached to an email
2) Large Text Email

The first email with the image file attached was rejected in both
Narrow and Wide mode. Maybe it was too big to send or the RMS
station has a maximum file size that I exceeded The second email
test was with a multipage text-based email.

Results are even more dramatic versus the first tests that you and I
ran. Narrow was *over FIVE times* as fast as Wide:

NARROW:
*** Completed send of message KUZD9IEXAAX3
*** Sent 1 message. *Bytes: 8357, Time: 00:19, bytes/minute:
2628*6
FQ
*** Disconnected from Winlink RMS: W7PFB-10 @ 2020/09/13 22:26:03
*** Session: *0.6 min*; Avg Throughput: 14998 Bytes/min; 1 Min
Peak Throughput: 14998 Bytes/min

WIDE MODE:
*** Completed send of message PIIWPT10E4ES
*** Sent 1 message. *Bytes: 8343, Time: 01:30, bytes/minute: 5503*
FQ
*** Disconnected from Winlink RMS: W7PFB-10 @ 2020/09/13 22:31:45
*** Session: *1.7 min*; Avg Throughput: 4814 Bytes/min; 1 Min Peak
Throughput: 4814 Bytes/min



--
*************************
Howard E. Mahran
WA1HEM
(425) 864 - 5104
*************************






Rowland
 

I just ordered the 36.  Am I good with that choice?



Thanks,

Rowland



On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 10:25 PM Shawn / K7ATA <shawn@...> wrote:
the nice part is that the DRA-50 is NOT radio specific, and at some
point you may have additional radios that are compatible with wide mode.

--Shawn
--K7ATA

On 9/15/2020 7:25 PM, Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM wrote:
> Well that’s too bad - I guess I jumped the gun on the DRA-50  ☹
>
> Thanks for investigating...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io <snovarc@snovarc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shawn / K7ATA
> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 3:40 PM
> To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [SnoVARC] W7PFB-10 Winlink RMS changes
>
> so I did some research on this, and the data port on the ic9700 is connected pre-discriminator, as is the internal soundcard interface.
> Unfortunately, nobody has documented a modification to change that.
>
> --Shawn
> --K7ATA
>
> On 9/13/2020 3:53 PM, Paul Butzi (W7PFB) wrote:
>> Yes.
>>
>> -p W7PFB
>> 73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!
>>
>>> On Sep 13, 2020, at 3:51 PM, Paul Zoba <pezoba@...
>>> <mailto:pezoba@...>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Paul, are you referring to the internal sound card in the 9700?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 13, 2020, at 3:45 PM, Paul Butzi (W7PFB) <w7pfb@...
>>> <mailto:w7pfb@...>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Yeah, there’s something going wrong with the wide mode.  I suspect
>>> that it gets huge error rates in wide mode, which cuts the thruput
>>> way back.
>>>
>>> Doing some research it seems the bandwidth of the internal soundcard
>>> is limited to 2.5khz, not enough for wide mode.  So I expect that’s
>>> what is going on.
>>>
>>> Even worse, apparently the 6 pin mini-din connector does not give you
>>> the access points in the audio chain that you need to do wide mode
>>> either.  So you can’t even use an external sound card to do it.
>>>   (although I think some experimenting is in order to verify that).
>>>
>>>
>>> -p W7PFB
>>> 73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!
>>>
>>>> On Sep 13, 2020, at 3:40 PM, Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM
>>>> <wa1hem@... <mailto:wa1hem@...>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Just attempted 2 tests using 2 separate larger file types:
>>>>
>>>> 1) Image attached to an email
>>>> 2) Large Text Email
>>>>
>>>> The first email with the image file attached was rejected in both
>>>> Narrow and Wide mode. Maybe it was too big to send or the RMS
>>>> station has a maximum file size that I exceeded The second email
>>>> test was with a multipage text-based email.
>>>>
>>>> Results are even more dramatic versus the first tests that you and I
>>>> ran. Narrow was *over FIVE times* as  fast as Wide:
>>>>
>>>> NARROW:
>>>> *** Completed send of message KUZD9IEXAAX3
>>>> *** Sent 1 message. *Bytes: 8357,  Time: 00:19,  bytes/minute:
>>>> 2628*6
>>>>     FQ
>>>> *** Disconnected from Winlink RMS: W7PFB-10 @ 2020/09/13 22:26:03
>>>> *** Session: *0.6 min*; Avg Throughput: 14998 Bytes/min;   1 Min
>>>> Peak Throughput: 14998 Bytes/min
>>>>
>>>> WIDE MODE:
>>>> *** Completed send of message PIIWPT10E4ES
>>>> *** Sent 1 message. *Bytes: 8343,  Time: 01:30,  bytes/minute: 5503*
>>>>     FQ
>>>> *** Disconnected from Winlink RMS: W7PFB-10 @ 2020/09/13 22:31:45
>>>> *** Session: *1.7 min*; Avg Throughput: 4814 Bytes/min;   1 Min Peak
>>>> Throughput: 4814 Bytes/min
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> *************************
>>>> Howard E. Mahran
>>>> WA1HEM
>>>> (425) 864 - 5104
>>>> *************************
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>






Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM
 

Good Point Shawn. I should try it with my FT991a

On Sep 15, 2020, at 10:25 PM, Shawn / K7ATA <shawn@...> wrote:

the nice part is that the DRA-50 is NOT radio specific, and at some point you may have additional radios that are compatible with wide mode.

--Shawn
--K7ATA

On 9/15/2020 7:25 PM, Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM wrote:
Well that’s too bad - I guess I jumped the gun on the DRA-50  ☹

Thanks for investigating...

-----Original Message-----
From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io <snovarc@snovarc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shawn / K7ATA
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 3:40 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SnoVARC] W7PFB-10 Winlink RMS changes

so I did some research on this, and the data port on the ic9700 is connected pre-discriminator, as is the internal soundcard interface.
Unfortunately, nobody has documented a modification to change that.

--Shawn
--K7ATA

On 9/13/2020 3:53 PM, Paul Butzi (W7PFB) wrote:
Yes.

-p W7PFB
73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!

On Sep 13, 2020, at 3:51 PM, Paul Zoba <pezoba@...
<mailto:pezoba@...>> wrote:

Paul, are you referring to the internal sound card in the 9700?


On Sep 13, 2020, at 3:45 PM, Paul Butzi (W7PFB) <w7pfb@...
<mailto:w7pfb@...>> wrote:

 Yeah, there’s something going wrong with the wide mode.  I suspect
that it gets huge error rates in wide mode, which cuts the thruput
way back.

Doing some research it seems the bandwidth of the internal soundcard
is limited to 2.5khz, not enough for wide mode.  So I expect that’s
what is going on.

Even worse, apparently the 6 pin mini-din connector does not give you
the access points in the audio chain that you need to do wide mode
either.  So you can’t even use an external sound card to do it.
 (although I think some experimenting is in order to verify that).


-p W7PFB
73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!

On Sep 13, 2020, at 3:40 PM, Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM
<wa1hem@... <mailto:wa1hem@...>> wrote:

Just attempted 2 tests using 2 separate larger file types:

1) Image attached to an email
2) Large Text Email

The first email with the image file attached was rejected in both
Narrow and Wide mode. Maybe it was too big to send or the RMS
station has a maximum file size that I exceeded The second email
test was with a multipage text-based email.

Results are even more dramatic versus the first tests that you and I
ran. Narrow was *over FIVE times* as  fast as Wide:

NARROW:
*** Completed send of message KUZD9IEXAAX3
*** Sent 1 message. *Bytes: 8357,  Time: 00:19,  bytes/minute:
2628*6
   FQ
*** Disconnected from Winlink RMS: W7PFB-10 @ 2020/09/13 22:26:03
*** Session: *0.6 min*; Avg Throughput: 14998 Bytes/min;   1 Min
Peak Throughput: 14998 Bytes/min

WIDE MODE:
*** Completed send of message PIIWPT10E4ES
*** Sent 1 message. *Bytes: 8343,  Time: 01:30,  bytes/minute: 5503*
   FQ
*** Disconnected from Winlink RMS: W7PFB-10 @ 2020/09/13 22:31:45
*** Session: *1.7 min*; Avg Throughput: 4814 Bytes/min;   1 Min Peak
Throughput: 4814 Bytes/min



--
*************************
Howard E. Mahran
WA1HEM
(425) 864 - 5104
*************************













***********************************
Howard Mahran
(425) 864-5104
***********************************





--
*************************
Howard E. Mahran
WA1HEM
(425) 864 - 5104
*************************


Paul Butzi (W7PFB)
 

I’m pretty sure it should be possible to do VARA FM WIDE on an FTM-400D.  The connector on the back of the radio includes the right signals but for reasons known only to Yaesu does not use a 6 pin mini-din but instead a 9 pin mini-din with other signals added in.  So you’d need to build a cable from 6 pin mini-din to 9-pin Yaesu format mini-din.

-p W7PFB
73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!

On Sep 16, 2020, at 8:27 AM, Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM <wa1hem@...> wrote:

Good Point Shawn. I should try it with my FT991a

On Sep 15, 2020, at 10:25 PM, Shawn / K7ATA <shawn@...> wrote:

the nice part is that the DRA-50 is NOT radio specific, and at some point you may have additional radios that are compatible with wide mode.

--Shawn
--K7ATA

On 9/15/2020 7:25 PM, Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM wrote:
Well that’s too bad - I guess I jumped the gun on the DRA-50  ☹

Thanks for investigating...

-----Original Message-----
From: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io <snovarc@snovarc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shawn / K7ATA
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 3:40 PM
To: snovarc@snovarc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SnoVARC] W7PFB-10 Winlink RMS changes

so I did some research on this, and the data port on the ic9700 is connected pre-discriminator, as is the internal soundcard interface.
Unfortunately, nobody has documented a modification to change that.

--Shawn
--K7ATA

On 9/13/2020 3:53 PM, Paul Butzi (W7PFB) wrote:
Yes.

-p W7PFB
73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!

On Sep 13, 2020, at 3:51 PM, Paul Zoba <pezoba@...
<mailto:pezoba@...>> wrote:

Paul, are you referring to the internal sound card in the 9700?


On Sep 13, 2020, at 3:45 PM, Paul Butzi (W7PFB) <w7pfb@...
<mailto:w7pfb@...>> wrote:

 Yeah, there’s something going wrong with the wide mode.  I suspect
that it gets huge error rates in wide mode, which cuts the thruput
way back.

Doing some research it seems the bandwidth of the internal soundcard
is limited to 2.5khz, not enough for wide mode.  So I expect that’s
what is going on.

Even worse, apparently the 6 pin mini-din connector does not give you
the access points in the audio chain that you need to do wide mode
either.  So you can’t even use an external sound card to do it.
 (although I think some experimenting is in order to verify that).


-p W7PFB
73, Don’t forget to smile and have fun!

On Sep 13, 2020, at 3:40 PM, Howard E. Mahran / WA1HEM
<wa1hem@... <mailto:wa1hem@...>> wrote:

Just attempted 2 tests using 2 separate larger file types:

1) Image attached to an email
2) Large Text Email

The first email with the image file attached was rejected in both
Narrow and Wide mode. Maybe it was too big to send or the RMS
station has a maximum file size that I exceeded The second email
test was with a multipage text-based email.

Results are even more dramatic versus the first tests that you and I
ran. Narrow was *over FIVE times* as  fast as Wide:

NARROW:
*** Completed send of message KUZD9IEXAAX3
*** Sent 1 message. *Bytes: 8357,  Time: 00:19,  bytes/minute:
2628*6
   FQ
*** Disconnected from Winlink RMS: W7PFB-10 @ 2020/09/13 22:26:03
*** Session: *0.6 min*; Avg Throughput: 14998 Bytes/min;   1 Min
Peak Throughput: 14998 Bytes/min

WIDE MODE:
*** Completed send of message PIIWPT10E4ES
*** Sent 1 message. *Bytes: 8343,  Time: 01:30,  bytes/minute: 5503*
   FQ
*** Disconnected from Winlink RMS: W7PFB-10 @ 2020/09/13 22:31:45
*** Session: *1.7 min*; Avg Throughput: 4814 Bytes/min;   1 Min Peak
Throughput: 4814 Bytes/min



--
*************************
Howard E. Mahran
WA1HEM
(425) 864 - 5104
*************************













***********************************
Howard Mahran
(425) 864-5104
***********************************





--
*************************
Howard E. Mahran
WA1HEM
(425) 864 - 5104
*************************